Green Building Forum - Review of Green Energy Taxes Tue, 19 Dec 2023 07:37:53 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Review of Green Energy Taxes http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187095#Comment_187095 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187095#Comment_187095 Wed, 23 Oct 2013 13:46:29 +0100 Triassic
"We need to help people pay their bill and we need to help to get bills down," he told MPs. "We need to roll back some of the green regulations and charges that are putting up bills."

The review would be followed by a new competition test for the energy market to establish how it was functioning.

He added: "I want more companies, I want better regulation, I want better deals for consumers. But yes, we also need to roll back the green charges that he (Ed Miliband) put in place as energy secretary."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24637499

So which Green Regulation or charge (Tax) would you want to add to the list to be 'rolled back' and recycled.

Come to think of it, which Tax would you increase?]]> Review of Green Energy Taxes http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187097#Comment_187097 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187097#Comment_187097 Wed, 23 Oct 2013 14:12:20 +0100 SteamyTea
I would increase income tax, across the board, and include a wealth tax on asset inflation (though not sure how that would work).
Then reduce or abolish all the silly confusing and conflicting tax and incentives for all industries (though that would conflict with job creation).]]> Review of Green Energy Taxes http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187099#Comment_187099 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187099#Comment_187099 Wed, 23 Oct 2013 14:28:42 +0100 Triassic Review of Green Energy Taxes http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187100#Comment_187100 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187100#Comment_187100 Wed, 23 Oct 2013 14:40:51 +0100 SteamyTea
A fixed lower price on carbon is going to be interesting as a tax.]]> Review of Green Energy Taxes http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187101#Comment_187101 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187101#Comment_187101 Wed, 23 Oct 2013 15:09:11 +0100 Ed Davies Review of Green Energy Taxes http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187104#Comment_187104 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187104#Comment_187104 Wed, 23 Oct 2013 15:43:16 +0100 gustyturbine Review of Green Energy Taxes http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187112#Comment_187112 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187112#Comment_187112 Wed, 23 Oct 2013 16:37:03 +0100 fostertom Posted By: TriassicGreen taxes, David Cameron said, accounted for £112 of the average annual dual fuel billElsewhere I read that it accounted for 3-4% of the average bill.]]> Review of Green Energy Taxes http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187115#Comment_187115 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187115#Comment_187115 Wed, 23 Oct 2013 16:55:27 +0100 jamesingram Review of Green Energy Taxes http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187116#Comment_187116 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187116#Comment_187116 Wed, 23 Oct 2013 17:05:46 +0100 SteamyTea http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0080g47) today was about energy bill (what a surprise). Now I missed a few minutes of it, but did not here any mention of price in kWh, the amount people actually use or reading your won meter.

The term 'charity begins at home' popped into my head.

With the UK having one of the cheapest energy prices in the EU, being one of the wealthiest countries in the world (7th I think), are our energy prices really expensive, are our taxes too high or are we just a bunch of 'moaning minnies'.

Yesterday, as I was installing some energy monitoring equipment, a farm worker (not the farm owner) was telling me that he had an empty second house that only had '2 old freezers' in it. His electricity bill was £1,200 last year. I suggested new freezers. I have no idea what is in the freezers, but must be worth more than £2,200 (council tax and electricity). So when an ordinary worker can afford that, we really do not have a serious problem with the cost of our energy.]]> Review of Green Energy Taxes http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187119#Comment_187119 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187119#Comment_187119 Wed, 23 Oct 2013 17:13:23 +0100 jamesingram I heard Cameron got shot down for suggesting wearing a light jumper round the house . Much like Jimmy Carter , the plebs don't like to be told to consume less. I'm not at all keen on Cameron , but it seems a sensible comment .]]> Review of Green Energy Taxes http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187121#Comment_187121 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187121#Comment_187121 Wed, 23 Oct 2013 17:28:21 +0100 HollyBush
1 - lower fuel price for first units used, offset against higher users later units (the opposite of what happens in most cases today I believe)

2 - a house tax similar to the car tax - perhaps a multiplier to the council tax based on energy efficiency or environmental impact, those with most green houses pay say a quarter of the tax. Those really inefficient houses pay double. By linking it to council tax they (the council) should be able to identify and help those people that need help the most, with something to incentivise the council to take action

3 - small tax on major polluters which helps the councils improve people's houses (or factories I guess)]]> Review of Green Energy Taxes http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187133#Comment_187133 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187133#Comment_187133 Wed, 23 Oct 2013 18:39:10 +0100 SteamyTea Posted By: HollyBush1 - lower fuel price for first units usedWhat would the lower units go up to, 100 kWh/month, 200, 300 ... Would it not encourage usage up to the limit rather than just limiting usage?


Posted By: HollyBush2 - a house tax similar to the car tax - perhaps a multiplier to the council tax based on energy efficiency or environmental impact
Not really the same problem, cars move and cause congestion on the roads at certain time, houses don't move. But, like cars, if you raise the fuel duty you encourage better technologies. It is all about usage not the hardware. An empty Band F house does not use any energy, regardless of size, location.

Posted By: HollyBush3 - small tax on major polluters which helps the councils improve people's houses (or factories I guess)
I am all for taxing polluters, but I think it is a job for central government not local councils. Local councils should be about local issues, not national energy policy. How would you feel if your neighbouring town happened to be in different council and allowed a waste incinerator on the boarder (think Cornwall and Devon). One gets the benefits the other gets the problems.

I also think it is not the local councils problem to reduce individuals outgoings. Yes they need to make sure that any housing they control is up to regulations, but I would feel pretty narked if they wanted me to spend a few thousand by Shanghaing me with a council tax hike, regardless of my actual energy usage. Technically it hurts physically smaller houses as well, that volume to area ratio.]]> Review of Green Energy Taxes http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187135#Comment_187135 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187135#Comment_187135 Wed, 23 Oct 2013 19:11:45 +0100 fostertom Posted By: HollyBusha house tax similar to the car taxSORN?]]> Review of Green Energy Taxes http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187139#Comment_187139 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187139#Comment_187139 Wed, 23 Oct 2013 20:25:21 +0100 snyggapa Posted By: SteamyTea
Posted By: HollyBush1 - lower fuel price for first units used
What would the lower units go up to, 100 kWh/month, 200, 300 ... Would it not encourage usage up to the limit rather than just limiting usage?



not if the limit was set low enough! maybe three tiers

1) zero cost or very low for the first x units per household - sorts out the "poverty" argument
2) a raised cost for the next X , brings up the average cost back to near where it was for a degree of "normal" usage
3) double the raised cost for units above tier 2 - discourages waste]]> Review of Green Energy Taxes http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187274#Comment_187274 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187274#Comment_187274 Thu, 24 Oct 2013 17:22:12 +0100 windy lamb Review of Green Energy Taxes http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187390#Comment_187390 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187390#Comment_187390 Sat, 26 Oct 2013 09:36:07 +0100 Triassic Review of Green Energy Taxes http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187392#Comment_187392 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187392#Comment_187392 Sat, 26 Oct 2013 09:57:20 +0100 SteamyTea We pay a high price down here for preservation of old buildings and landscapes in Cornwall. Stops a lot of development, both economic and social.
Most of the old buildings are only a couple of hundred years old, look the same (pump houses) and are not functional.]]> Review of Green Energy Taxes http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187504#Comment_187504 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187504#Comment_187504 Sun, 27 Oct 2013 17:13:00 +0000 MartinH
We should examine the fuel price increases over, say, the last 3 years, and find out how much is due to underling world energy prices, energy company price hikes etc. Has anyone got the figures?

The focus on green taxes as the evil source of energy price increases seems to me to be a cynical ploy to distract the public from the profiteering of energy companies.

Green taxes are an investment in the future energy security of the nation - fuel prices are only going to increase...]]> Review of Green Energy Taxes http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187505#Comment_187505 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187505#Comment_187505 Sun, 27 Oct 2013 17:14:09 +0000 MartinH Review of Green Energy Taxes http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187507#Comment_187507 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187507#Comment_187507 Sun, 27 Oct 2013 18:04:36 +0000 jms452 Posted By: MartinHThe focus on green taxes as the evil source of energy price increases seems to me to be a cynical ploy to distract the public from the profiteering of energy companies

I think both energy co and green tax bashing are cynical ploys to avoid the unpalatable truth that fossil fuels are getting harder to extract and there are ever more people buying them.]]> Review of Green Energy Taxes http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187527#Comment_187527 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187527#Comment_187527 Sun, 27 Oct 2013 22:49:59 +0000 CWatters
http://www.scottishpower.co.uk/support-centre/billing/billbreakdown

Breakdown of costs for a typical £100 monthly energy bill in 2013*
£50 Cost of Energy
£21 Delivery to your home
£10 Customer Service (metering £3, Cust serv £7)
£10 Green levies
£5 VAT
£4 Profit

There are also links to "More details" but not all seem to work for me.]]> Review of Green Energy Taxes http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187528#Comment_187528 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187528#Comment_187528 Sun, 27 Oct 2013 22:52:39 +0000 CWatters Review of Green Energy Taxes http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187536#Comment_187536 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187536#Comment_187536 Mon, 28 Oct 2013 07:19:33 +0000 SteamyTea I think we should pay for the latter on our bills. The rest benefits everyone, whether they use it directly of not.

Heard on radio that there are going to be 2 new gas generators built. 900MW in Essex at £600m, can't remember where the other one was.]]> Review of Green Energy Taxes http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187567#Comment_187567 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=187567#Comment_187567 Mon, 28 Oct 2013 13:36:05 +0000 Doubting_Thomas http://www.theguardian.com/environment/damian-carrington-blog/2013/oct/10/green-taxes-energy-bill-fuel-sse-price-rising]]> Review of Green Energy Taxes http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=193292#Comment_193292 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=193292#Comment_193292 Sun, 12 Jan 2014 21:46:48 +0000 Justin
Hi there.

After a discussion with a colleague, http://zerocarbonista.com/2013/12/05/the-pre-payment-meter-rip-off/#comment-851511 , it just became clear that Ecotricity are putting £105 a year on gas (their green gas tariff) as a standing charge. I think all the suppliers are doing something along these lines, but I have not looked at the detail.

It is causing a massive proportional increase in gas bills for low users. For me, I'll be expecting £42% increase in my gas bill this year compared to last, which is horrible, and for my colleague who has recently installed a heat pump, and uses gas now only for cooking, it will represent 700% increase.

This seems to be a result of The Government stirring up the energy market, but as is is so often the case, the low users pay even more proportionally to subsidise the high users.]]> Review of Green Energy Taxes http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=193294#Comment_193294 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=193294#Comment_193294 Sun, 12 Jan 2014 22:05:48 +0000 SteamyTea
From a purely pragmatic viewpoint is it worth just having mains gas for cooking only?]]> Review of Green Energy Taxes http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=193297#Comment_193297 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=193297#Comment_193297 Sun, 12 Jan 2014 22:25:22 +0000 Justin
Even running a boiler some of the time and being frugal in a fairly efficient house is a poor deal compared to what the polluters" get. For me my gas effectively cost 60% more per unit than the price paid by "Mr Average" (Mr average lives in medium sized house and used 20300 KWH a year http://bit.ly/KSdfzn).

If I had a heat pump, I'd probably dump the gas for cooking, yes.]]> Review of Green Energy Taxes http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=193323#Comment_193323 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=193323#Comment_193323 Mon, 13 Jan 2014 09:19:35 +0000 DarylP https://www.ebico.org.uk/

Ideal for low use customers!:smile:]]> Review of Green Energy Taxes http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=193416#Comment_193416 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=193416#Comment_193416 Mon, 13 Jan 2014 21:25:45 +0000 Justin I've been very happy till now and the £100 hike, in the understanding that Ecotricity are at least doing the right thing with my cash.
I feel less easy about many of the others, and buying anything other than "green" energy does hurt.]]> Review of Green Energy Taxes http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=193503#Comment_193503 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11294&Focus=193503#Comment_193503 Wed, 15 Jan 2014 17:48:55 +0000 ferdinand2000
As it is we have a false debate about high energy prices when:

a) - They aren't high.
b) - Green levies which have been smuggled in to make them invisible also create a conflict of interest for the energy companies, and make it difficult to perceive the value of doing energy improvement work.

I wonder if an appropriate way to link costs for green insulation etc to the pocket of the householder would be to tier Stamp Duty according to EPC figure. The huge fly in that ointment is that Stamp Duty is paid by the buyer. Perhaps add a Stamp Duty contribution by the seller. Even a 2% charge might encourage people to Eco their house before sale if doing so got it back.

Ferdinand]]>