Green Building Forum - How to carry out on site assessments for energy audits Tue, 19 Dec 2023 05:29:37 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 How to carry out on site assessments for energy audits http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=303994#Comment_303994 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=303994#Comment_303994 Sun, 22 Oct 2023 14:48:28 +0100 Beau
I have been roped in to help a friend with a few energy audits. We are just collecting information from the sites and passing the info on to a contractor. I went for the first one last week with no training and don't think my friend has done much. Loads of info to collect some of which is not a simple matter like what insulation type/thickness is in walls and roofs (no access to either). I was a bit taken aback by the amount of guesswork involved and recorded to be taken as gospel!

If I am going to help again I want to do as good a job as possible as I see duff data as worse than useless.

I suspect some of you good folk know what's involved in doing a proper job and would very much like to hear what you think I should know.

In all honesty, I do not think it right how we did the job last week but if I don't I suspect someone else who doesn't give two hoots would replace me.

Thanks
Beau]]> How to carry out on site assessments for energy audits http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=303995#Comment_303995 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=303995#Comment_303995 Sun, 22 Oct 2023 18:04:03 +0100 djh https://vesma.com/index.htm There might be something on his site that is relevant.

I think it's fundamentally quite a hard problem to solve. How do you know how much insulation is in a wall, without drilling holes at random? How airtight is a building without running an airtightness test? Is the occupant lying or mistaken? Cost and disruption to the occupants place difficult limits on what's possible.]]> How to carry out on site assessments for energy audits http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=303997#Comment_303997 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=303997#Comment_303997 Sun, 22 Oct 2023 19:36:14 +0100 Peter_in_Hungary
Without invasive (expensive) inspections I can't think of a better solution]]> How to carry out on site assessments for energy audits http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=303998#Comment_303998 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=303998#Comment_303998 Sun, 22 Oct 2023 19:38:26 +0100 Nick Parsons
Good to have (a) better photographic ability than me, (b) a list of photos you need at minimum, (c) a check-list of all info required and (d) a good idea of the interventions and 'kit' available.]]> How to carry out on site assessments for energy audits http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304001#Comment_304001 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304001#Comment_304001 Mon, 23 Oct 2023 09:05:28 +0100 tony I use it thermometer, instantly tells you a lot, eg no loft trap insulation, missing insulation inadequate insulation it can even pick up and coming draughts.
Looking is best. If no loft trap, suspect no insulation.]]> How to carry out on site assessments for energy audits http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304002#Comment_304002 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304002#Comment_304002 Mon, 23 Oct 2023 09:22:13 +0100 fostertom
What is then often complained of here, is an unfairness, which seems impossible to correct. If e.g. a property owner is prepared to put in time and money to generate truer evidence, then there should be a mechanism to feed same into a revised EPC calc, whereas it seems that the original approximation is the only result that's allowed to have official status and you're stuck with it.]]> How to carry out on site assessments for energy audits http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304006#Comment_304006 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304006#Comment_304006 Mon, 23 Oct 2023 11:05:48 +0100 djh
The whole problem with the proposed 'Scottish pasivhaus' revision is the availability of enough certifiers, apparently.]]> How to carry out on site assessments for energy audits http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304007#Comment_304007 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304007#Comment_304007 Mon, 23 Oct 2023 11:50:10 +0100 fostertom Posted By: djhthe cost and the availability of trained, and trustworthy, manpower.Lack of manpower is due to the pathetic payment tariff officially set. I remember being invited to talk about IES-type whole-building thermal modelling (which I was dabbling in at the time) to a local 'chapter' of prospective practitioners of the EPC next-big-thing - a bright lot who were expecting a regime of serious realistic assesment/modelling/recommendation. Instead they got a super-cheapskate tickbox ritual. I wonder what happened to them - all quit I'm sure, replaced by gig-economy pieceworkers.]]> How to carry out on site assessments for energy audits http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304010#Comment_304010 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304010#Comment_304010 Mon, 23 Oct 2023 15:16:05 +0100 Nick Parsons How to carry out on site assessments for energy audits http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304012#Comment_304012 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304012#Comment_304012 Mon, 23 Oct 2023 17:58:28 +0100 djh Posted By: fostertomthe pathetic payment tariff officially setBut that is presumably the politcians' best guess as to the public mood of cost vs benefit? You and I both think it should be set to produce more accurate results, but we're probably not typical.]]> How to carry out on site assessments for energy audits http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304013#Comment_304013 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304013#Comment_304013 Mon, 23 Oct 2023 18:11:35 +0100 Peter_in_Hungary How to carry out on site assessments for energy audits http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304014#Comment_304014 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304014#Comment_304014 Mon, 23 Oct 2023 18:40:04 +0100 fostertom Posted By: djhthe politcians' best guess as to the public moodDo we want politicians who just comply with the public mood (or rather, their core voters' mood)?
or ones who take the risk to illuminate and lead a public into 'what's right' - a public which, if succesfully so led, becomes by definition more united, less rigid in prejudice?

The former seems always to be a race to lowest common denominator, careless of 'what's right', as mostly today; the latter seems always enlivening, whether or not you agree with that particular 'what's right', but at least things can move.]]> How to carry out on site assessments for energy audits http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304018#Comment_304018 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304018#Comment_304018 Mon, 23 Oct 2023 20:17:44 +0100 Artiglio
On the radio recently there was a piece about fuel poverty and a charity that distributes heat packs, saying they help those in need by providing a couple of oil filled electric radiators so that damilies can heat just 2 rooms rather than turn the central heating on fornthe whole house. No talk of using rad valves of the existing system or any talk of the relative cost of gas and electricity or how hot water would be provided.

Then another article suggesting several million smart meters needed changing as they were effectively obsolete, if the report is correct is there any possibilty that smart meters help save energy/ money overall ,on that basis by the time the costs of those changes have been added to bills. Then we’ve increased energy costs and the salt in the wound of the standing charge increases to protect the customers of failed suppliers.

Add on the other suggestion ,that now that compulsory prepayment meters were no longer allowed, of a extra on bills to protect suppliers from users that don’t /can’t pay. Throw in the energy companies eco subsidies being moved to social housing and low income users and you end up with an energy market / policy that is seemingly never going to benefit the majority of users and that instead they’ll be forever subsidising others.

An epc rating is pretty irrelevant.]]> How to carry out on site assessments for energy audits http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304020#Comment_304020 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304020#Comment_304020 Mon, 23 Oct 2023 20:42:20 +0100 djh Posted By: fostertomDo we want politicians who just comply with the public mood (or rather, their core voters' mood)?You just keep chasing down one rabbit hole after another. What we want is irrelevant. It's what or who the public as a whole elect that matters.

There seems to be a shortage of inspiring politicians of any colour at the moment and has been for quite a while.]]> How to carry out on site assessments for energy audits http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304021#Comment_304021 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304021#Comment_304021 Mon, 23 Oct 2023 20:47:16 +0100 Nick Parsons
...and pretty jolly inaccurate in the majority of cases I have come across. That's my major gripe about them.]]> How to carry out on site assessments for energy audits http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304037#Comment_304037 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304037#Comment_304037 Wed, 25 Oct 2023 13:25:37 +0100 Beau
Plenty of useful tips there for us to do a better job next time if there is a next time. Can't believe how long it takes to get all the written on-site info into the Excel files once back at base.

Do you tend to enter it all into Excel files as you go along on-site?]]> How to carry out on site assessments for energy audits http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304039#Comment_304039 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304039#Comment_304039 Wed, 25 Oct 2023 17:47:09 +0100 Nick Parsons
I don't, but I bet those more tech-savvy than me probably do. Yes, when I do do measured surveys it always takes me a huge time to 'interpret' my 'drawings' and enter everything. Always take twice or 3x as many pics as I do to 'fill in the gaps'.]]> How to carry out on site assessments for energy audits http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304040#Comment_304040 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304040#Comment_304040 Wed, 25 Oct 2023 18:01:37 +0100 Peter_in_Hungary How to carry out on site assessments for energy audits http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304055#Comment_304055 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304055#Comment_304055 Sun, 29 Oct 2023 20:08:21 +0000 wookey https://openenergymonitor.org/sapjs/
You can install it locally, and all data stays local anyway:
Here is mine: http://wookware.org/SAPjs/

Links to docs, the source and other tools are at the bottom.

That is SAP 9.92. Is 10.1 in force now? In which case it needs an update.]]> How to carry out on site assessments for energy audits http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304056#Comment_304056 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304056#Comment_304056 Mon, 30 Oct 2023 08:44:21 +0000 RobinB
As for the EPCs which are next to useless - due to the can't see it so can't count it approach, the only glimmer of light I think is that maybe UK buildings are not nearly as bad as we think they are. They can't even see/evaluate triple glazing, wall insulation or indeed most of the things that contribute to a good energy rating.]]> How to carry out on site assessments for energy audits http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304068#Comment_304068 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304068#Comment_304068 Mon, 30 Oct 2023 20:55:57 +0000 djh Posted By: RobinBThey can't even see/evaluate triple glazingThat disappoints me, but perhaps not surprises me. It's quite easy to see triple glazing and not too difficult to see surface coatings and spacer types.]]> How to carry out on site assessments for energy audits http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304072#Comment_304072 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304072#Comment_304072 Tue, 31 Oct 2023 00:56:42 +0000 Peter_in_Hungary Posted By: djh
Posted By: RobinBThey can't even see/evaluate triple glazing
That disappoints me, but perhaps not surprises me. It's quite easy to see triple glazing and not too difficult to see surface coatings and spacer types.
If the UK is anything like over here where EPCs are restricted in the hourly rate that can be charged and the time allowed is also defined then perhaps substitute 'The can't even see' for Don't have time to properly look.]]> How to carry out on site assessments for energy audits http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304107#Comment_304107 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304107#Comment_304107 Wed, 01 Nov 2023 00:05:24 +0000 RobinB How to carry out on site assessments for energy audits http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304146#Comment_304146 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304146#Comment_304146 Thu, 02 Nov 2023 19:10:50 +0000 revor
https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/comment/making-energy-performance-certificates-fit-for-purpose-83617]]> How to carry out on site assessments for energy audits http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304148#Comment_304148 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304148#Comment_304148 Thu, 02 Nov 2023 20:47:36 +0000 djh How to carry out on site assessments for energy audits http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304149#Comment_304149 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18005&Focus=304149#Comment_304149 Fri, 03 Nov 2023 09:01:07 +0000 revor Posted By: djhHmm, seems to be a lot of good words but I haven't found any substance yet?

Thought you might think that. The how abundantly absent.]]>