Green Building Forum - New build checking on building quality. Tue, 19 Dec 2023 04:38:06 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 New build checking on building quality. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=290283#Comment_290283 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=290283#Comment_290283 Tue, 29 Jun 2021 08:25:33 +0100 Gareth J
They are of course, currently, tired and excited so not necessarily looking for problems at this stage but sooner rather than later I'd like to try to help them check things have at least been done towards current building standards while there's, hopefully, some chance of recourse. I know the horror stories and that I'd be very hesitant to buy one but that wasn't my decision. I would like to help them ensure what they have bought isn't needlessly rubbish.

Any useful resources? Or suggestions regarding sensible things to check?

Many thanks in advance]]> New build checking on building quality. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=290284#Comment_290284 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=290284#Comment_290284 Tue, 29 Jun 2021 08:35:14 +0100 Jonti
Edit: I would add that it is the big construction companies that cause the biggest concern. If the house has been built by one of the rare smaller companies they might be lucky.]]> New build checking on building quality. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=290285#Comment_290285 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=290285#Comment_290285 Tue, 29 Jun 2021 09:09:22 +0100 tony
Thermal imaging survey

Are drains connected and working?]]> New build checking on building quality. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=290286#Comment_290286 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=290286#Comment_290286 Tue, 29 Jun 2021 09:35:28 +0100 Gareth J
I don't know anything about the construction at this stage. Housebuilder is large enough to be doing a multi house estate but not one if the big name brands. (Name escapes me right now).]]> New build checking on building quality. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=290288#Comment_290288 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=290288#Comment_290288 Tue, 29 Jun 2021 09:39:11 +0100 Jeff B New build checking on building quality. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=290289#Comment_290289 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=290289#Comment_290289 Tue, 29 Jun 2021 11:02:06 +0100 Peter_in_Hungary New build checking on building quality. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=290290#Comment_290290 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=290290#Comment_290290 Tue, 29 Jun 2021 11:25:51 +0100 philedge New build checking on building quality. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=290291#Comment_290291 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=290291#Comment_290291 Tue, 29 Jun 2021 12:00:34 +0100 djh Posted By: philedgeId start by engaging with your sister as to whether having just moved in they would be prepared for the disruption of having builders back in to do snagging/remedial works. If they arent prepared to move out or vacate sections of the house, theres no point in looking for problems.
I think that's an important point but expressed the wrong way round. If there's a problem that's serious enough and going to cause so much disruption that they'll need to move out temporarily, then it is IMHO very important that such a problem is found and fixed. Both for their own benefit and for the protection of their investment.

So by all means mention the possibility that there may be some faults that might require drastic measures but persuade them of the necessity for that if things turn out that way.]]> New build checking on building quality. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=290292#Comment_290292 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=290292#Comment_290292 Tue, 29 Jun 2021 12:16:07 +0100 Mike1
Some developers have had significant problems with this - Persimmon recently: https://www.thefpa.co.uk/news/arup-to-assist-persimmon-on-fire-safety]]> New build checking on building quality. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=290299#Comment_290299 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=290299#Comment_290299 Tue, 29 Jun 2021 21:33:58 +0100 Gareth J
I'll find out who built them.]]> New build checking on building quality. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=290310#Comment_290310 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=290310#Comment_290310 Wed, 30 Jun 2021 13:24:15 +0100 HollyBush 1 - google new build house snagging list or similar - might even be one on here, or find one and post here for review

2 - ask the builder for details of their warranty scheme - who do you contact, when etc. The builder should have a process to address issues long after initial sale.

Check the contract - IMHO If you need to move out, then that is a cost the builder should shoulder...]]> New build checking on building quality. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=290350#Comment_290350 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=290350#Comment_290350 Fri, 02 Jul 2021 08:53:45 +0100 Gareth J New build checking on building quality. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=290422#Comment_290422 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=290422#Comment_290422 Sun, 04 Jul 2021 20:49:38 +0100 wookey
But look in back of kitchen cupboards/behind white goods for holes in the wall that are not airtight, check loft hatch seals properly. Try to get a look at the eaves from outside/inside (but probably covered in fluff and PVC trim).

As you said a windy day is good and you can at least see if the window seals work, then complain that they've bought a _brand new_ house and it hasn't even got bloody triple glazing (they almost never do because our buildings regs are so pathetic), or MVHR, two basics of a decent house.]]> New build checking on building quality. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=291875#Comment_291875 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=291875#Comment_291875 Fri, 24 Sep 2021 13:30:53 +0100 Gareth J
Lots of things look done in a rush or badly or both. Little things like 1/2 of all door hinge screws cammed out and burred and laminate vinyl tiles that are rising where they meet.

Had a brief look at heating. Gas boiler, small standard rads. Does have a pressurised hot water tank though which would be my preference over a combi. But what a disappointment no thought to switching to a heat pump, would require almost a complete refit.

Boiler stat and tank stat both set to 65C. Bath and tap water scalding. So no TMV under there. I turned the tank stat back to 55 which has apparently improved bathtime. Makes me realise just how out of their comfort zone my sister and husband are with all this stuff!

No MVHR, massive trickle vents everywhere. Though the windows and doors look decent quality.

Will have to go back for a proper dig if it's welcome. They have a decent amount of warranty which is something.

No MVHR]]> New build checking on building quality. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=291880#Comment_291880 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=291880#Comment_291880 Fri, 24 Sep 2021 21:09:15 +0100 djh Posted By: Gareth Jlaminate vinyl tiles that are rising where they meetTo be fair if it's a new build that's difficult to avoid. We have sheet vinyl on our kitchen floor and it has ridges in it now because the timber (well chipboard) floor underneath it has shrunk. We'll replace the cheap vinyl with something better and hopefully more eco-friendly at some point.

Bath and tap water scalding.
I think in a new house there's a requirement (building regs) for hot water to the bath to be under 48°C. I deliberately didn't fit a bath when we built for that reason, just ran the plumbing for one. I think the reqirement is ridiculuous since it means you can't top up the hot water in the bath. But they should be able to get one installed if they want.]]> New build checking on building quality. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=291885#Comment_291885 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=291885#Comment_291885 Fri, 24 Sep 2021 22:54:53 +0100 Gareth J New build checking on building quality. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=291891#Comment_291891 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=291891#Comment_291891 Sat, 25 Sep 2021 18:10:03 +0100 revor Thought I might have needed one on my refurbishment which was almost a new build BCO said did not apply in this situation. Later learned was covered anyway as my thermal store provides DHW via heat exchanger which controls the output temperature.
Builders are always looking at bottom line and lot of the time they do not know the regs anyway. When my BCO called during our build he remarked that our MVHR was the first he had seen. Next time he called he said he had left me to got to next visit and came across another MVHR. except the builder had not understood their function they had trickle venst as well.]]> New build checking on building quality. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=291892#Comment_291892 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=291892#Comment_291892 Sat, 25 Sep 2021 20:07:14 +0100 djh Posted By: revorLater learned was covered anyway as my thermal store provides DHW via heat exchanger which controls the output temperature.Thermal stores are normally governed to 60°C, which is the limit for hot water distribution and in reverse, water must reach at least 50°C within 1 minute to prevent legionella. Baths have a stricter limit. They need a local TMV set at or below 48°C. But that only applies to new builds. Complicated and stupid IMHO like most of the water regs.

Builders are always looking at bottom line and lot of the time they do not know the regs anyway.
Not just builders sadly. The whole of the building industry and all those connected with running properties are ignorant and/or corrupt. Witness Grenfell.]]> New build checking on building quality. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=291897#Comment_291897 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=291897#Comment_291897 Sun, 26 Sep 2021 08:04:18 +0100 revor Posted By: djhThermal stores are normally governed to 60°C, which is the limit for hot water distribution and in reverse, water must reach at least 50°C within 1 minute to prevent legionella.
My thermal store heated mainly by solar thermal (gas in winter) is set for 80 C max did not reach it this year but did last year. The water in it never sees the light of day the same water circulates through the boiler and UFH. When I draw hot water it comes from fresh cold feed through the heat exchanger the system senses that water is flowing and controls the flow of hot water from the store to the other side of the heat exchanger. The hotter the store the lower the flow. I confirmed recently that I can use this DHW for consumption and although we haven't yet, we do use it when blanching vegetables for freezing it save on the electricity bringing the water to the boil.]]> New build checking on building quality. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=291898#Comment_291898 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=291898#Comment_291898 Sun, 26 Sep 2021 08:36:18 +0100 PeterStarck Posted By: revorMy thermal store heated mainly by solar thermal (gas in winter) is set for 80 C max did not reach it this year but did last year. The water in it never sees the light of day the same water circulates through the boiler and UFH. When I draw hot water it comes from fresh cold feed through the heat exchanger the system senses that water is flowing and controls the flow of hot water from the store to the other side of the heat exchanger. The hotter the store the lower the flow. I confirmed recently that I can use this DHW for consumption and although we haven't yet, we do use it when blanching vegetables for freezing it save on the electricity bringing the water to the boil.

That's interesting because we are thinking of replacing our existing vented DHW tank with a thermal store heated in the summer using our existing solar thermal roof panel. When that is insufficient we would use our oil fired boiler. Would you mind telling me what make of TS you have and what size solar panel heat exchanger it has in it. It sounds as though your system is what we are aiming to achieve.]]> New build checking on building quality. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=291902#Comment_291902 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=291902#Comment_291902 Sun, 26 Sep 2021 11:47:11 +0100 djh Posted By: revorMy thermal store heated mainly by solar thermal (gas in winter) is set for 80 C max
Sorry, I wasn't clear. :shamed: I meant the temperature of the output DHW heated by the thermal store, not the temperature of the thermal store itself. Yes, my thermal store gets as hot as I dare to store more solar heat. Ours is powered by PV panels rather than solar thermal though.

I confirmed recently that I can use this DHW for consumption and although we haven't yet, we do use it when blanching vegetables for freezing it save on the electricity bringing the water to the boil.

Yes I too use the DHW for things like that. Sadly SWMBO is the main cook and she hasn't yet been persuaded. In the kitchen we have a hot tap, which is softened water heated by the thermal store; we have the a cold tap, which is raw and very hard tap water; and we have a third tap, which is fed off the cold supply and fed through a couple of filters to remove the hardness and various pollutants. SWMBO uses the third tap for lots of things I happily use the hot tap for when she's not watching. The filters cost £30 every six months, versus £8 or so for softener salt.

FWIW, our thermal store is a Gledhill, 250 L. Seems to be OK.]]> New build checking on building quality. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=291905#Comment_291905 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=291905#Comment_291905 Sun, 26 Sep 2021 12:50:49 +0100 revor Posted By: PeterStarckThat's interesting because we are thinking of replacing our existing vented DHW tank with a thermal store heated in the summer using our existing solar thermal roof panel. When that is insufficient we would use our oil fired boiler. Would you mind telling me what make of TS you have and what size solar panel heat exchanger it has in it. It sounds as though your system is what we are aiming to achieve.
It is a Gledhill 350L OV Solar. Panels are Velux (no longer marketed in UK) 5 sq M. You can select the size of store depending on the size of panels you have. It has extra tapings if you have another source of heat e.g Wood burner. I used the wood burner tapings for my gas boiler as they are 28 mm the boiler tapings on the cylinder are 22m MM which I capped off. All sizes may not have the features of the big ones so check the specs carefully. We would top up if needed with the boiler about 10 mins of 27 kw is sufficient usually, we did that 2 or 3 times last summer but not this summer thought think we will this week.]]> New build checking on building quality. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=291922#Comment_291922 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=291922#Comment_291922 Mon, 27 Sep 2021 07:56:32 +0100 Peter_in_Hungary Posted By: Gareth JBoiler stat and tank stat both set to 65C. Bath and tap water scalding. So no TMV under there. I turned the tank stat back to 55 which has apparently improved bathtime.


Posted By: Gareth JMakes me realise just how out of their comfort zone my sister and husband are with all this stuff!

Them and most of the UK population - which is why the building industry can get away with what they do.]]> New build checking on building quality. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=291924#Comment_291924 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=291924#Comment_291924 Mon, 27 Sep 2021 08:23:34 +0100 PeterStarck Posted By: revorIt is a Gledhill 350L OV Solar. Panels are Velux (no longer marketed in UK) 5 sq M. You can select the size of store depending on the size of panels you have. It has extra tapings if you have another source of heat e.g Wood burner. I used the wood burner tapings for my gas boiler as they are 28 mm the boiler tapings on the cylinder are 22m MM which I capped off. All sizes may not have the features of the big ones so check the specs carefully. We would top up if needed with the boiler about 10 mins of 27 kw is sufficient usually, we did that 2 or 3 times last summer but not this summer thought think we will this week.

Many thanks for your help.]]> New build checking on building quality. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=291957#Comment_291957 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=291957#Comment_291957 Tue, 28 Sep 2021 12:41:46 +0100 Gareth J
Would be better efficiency wise to lower boiler temp a bit too I suppose but minimising legionella risk in the HW tank is I guess the limit.]]> New build checking on building quality. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=291962#Comment_291962 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=291962#Comment_291962 Tue, 28 Sep 2021 13:42:44 +0100 djh Posted By: Gareth JI was surprised to see both boiler stat and tank stat at 65C as would have imagined a slight differential might be required in order for the tank temp to be satisfied.
Perhaps they both have that as the default temperature and nobody's bothered to set them? But only one is going to be satisfied in any case; I don't think it matters which one.]]> New build checking on building quality. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=291964#Comment_291964 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=291964#Comment_291964 Tue, 28 Sep 2021 15:55:29 +0100 Gareth J New build checking on building quality. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=291966#Comment_291966 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=291966#Comment_291966 Tue, 28 Sep 2021 16:57:52 +0100 djh Posted By: djhI don't think it matters which one.
Thinking about it a little more, having two stats in series will provide some fault tolerance. I've no idea whether that would be deliberate or just by chance.]]> New build checking on building quality. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=291969#Comment_291969 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=291969#Comment_291969 Tue, 28 Sep 2021 17:09:13 +0100 WillInAberdeen
For this to work, the DHW stat has to be set lower than the boiler stat, otherwise the DHW stat is never satisfied and so the boiler circulates continuously through the DHW tank and never through the CH.

There should be a third safety stat which cuts the boiler if both the others fail.]]> New build checking on building quality. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=291978#Comment_291978 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17105&Focus=291978#Comment_291978 Tue, 28 Sep 2021 20:28:17 +0100 djh