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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.

Buy individually or both books together. Delivery is free!


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    • CommentAuthorcpmczak
    • CommentTimeOct 18th 2016
     
    Thanks for the update Chris. Looks like I need to continue my search then for a cheaper UK based product.
    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeOct 18th 2016
     
    What about integrated PV, so the roof covering is not needed.....
    • CommentAuthorcjard
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2016
     
    As a side note to this, does anyone know of a steel profile that mimics slate? Even if it's just a horizontal ripple in the steel. I realise this would mean the joints are glued / crimped, but might it be possible? Thinking about the back plane of the roof where the planning dept don't care so much..
    • CommentAuthorcjard
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2016
     
    Other question, what do you do about the noise of the rain beating down on a tin roof?
    • CommentAuthordaiking
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2016
     
    Posted By: cjardOther question, what do you do about the noise of the rain beating down on a tin roof?


    revel in it.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2016
     
    Posted By: cjardOther question, what do you do about the noise of the rain beating down on a tin roof?

    Put 500 mm of warmcel or similar underneath it and you hardly hear the rain.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2016
     
    Quite - we think tin roofs are noisy because we've been inside barns etc. You get almost as much noise under an unlined old slate roof (where you can see the battens and slates).
    • CommentAuthorcjard
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2016
     
    Re the warmcel comment, I had another thread on here recently where I was querying whether it was a good idea to put mineral wool under some roof lights that I will eventually remove and slate over.. but in the interim what could be done to reduce condensation risk to the the materials that would remain. Generally the wool was considered a bad idea, so I'm now seeing a a bit of conflict of opinion surely, with the "put warmcel so it touches the underside of the outer skin.."
    • CommentAuthorbillt
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2016
     
    I don't see anyone saying that the warmcel touches the underside of the roof, just that there's 500mm at some point below the roof.

    If there's a ventilated gap between the top of the insulation and the underside of the roof there shouldn't be a condensation problem. If the insulation has a continuous impermeable barrier on the warm side there probably wouldn't be a condensation issue.

    In your example there was neither ventilation below the roof or an impermeable barrier - condensation on the underside of the roof almost certain and will soak the mineral wool.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2016
     
    I think I've posted our roof construction before, but I'll repeat it.
    From the outside down:

    - aluminium standing seam surface
    - 'metal' membrane (i.e. a breathable membrane with what looks like scotchbrite pad on top)
    - 2 x 9 mm external structural ply, overlapped
    - 450 mm deep cavity formed of timber roof structure, filled with warmcel
    - panelvent HDF board
    - Intello membrane
    - plasterboard & skim

    So no ventilation but ostensibly breathable to some degree both top and bottom. The theory is that condensation/vapour under the metal drains across the top of the membrane, through the tangled plastic wool. Vapour/condensation anywhere underneath the ply is buffered by the warmcel and escapes via the Intello when conditions are suitable.
  1.  
    Posted By: djhThe theory is that condensation/vapour under the metal drains across the top of the membrane, through the tangled plastic wool.
    Interesting,; where to ....the gutter?
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2016 edited
     
    Posted By: Gotanewlife
    Posted By: djhThe theory is that condensation/vapour under the metal drains across the top of the membrane, through the tangled plastic wool.
    Interesting,; where to ....the gutter?

    No, just drips off the edge; not that I've ever seen any evidence of any. The gutter is on top of the roof in our case. (a formed stand-up barrier at right angles to the roof surface near the eaves)

    Edit: Actually it seems more likely that small amounts of condensation would just sit on the membrane until the roof heated up and evaporated it.
    • CommentAuthorGotanewlife
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2016 edited
     
    Ahhhh I wondered if that would be the theory and that's exactly what I wondered whether would be possible: so it is drying to the inside when conditions allow because the aluminium is pretty much vapour tight?
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2016
     
    I think any excess water - ice, liquid or gas - that is above the membrane is most likely to exit sideways through the plastic wool to the edge of the roof. Most likely as vapour but perhaps as liquid sometimes.

    Any excess water - ice, liquid or gas - that is inside the roof structure either has to find its way up through the plywood and membrane so it is outside, or down through the panelvent, intello and plaster to the inside. The idea is that the variable vapour permeability of the intello means it is easier for vapour to escape to the inside than it is for vapour to make its way from inside up into the roof. I just hope the theory is right! But Pro Clima do warrant that it works.
    • CommentAuthorcjard
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2016 edited
     
    Posted By: billt

    In your example there was neither ventilation below the roof or an impermeable barrier - condensation on the underside of the roof almost certain and will soak the mineral wool.


    Did I not mention the vcl in my buildup? I thought I had..
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