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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.

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    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2008
     
    These are becoming far more common in Europe and as we move to better insulated buildings and implement the Code for sustainable homes we will need these too.

    Wood is a great material for window frames and combined with a lamination of insulation become tremendous.
    • CommentAuthorjoe.e
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2008
     
    What type of insulation is normally used?
    • CommentAuthorchuckey
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2008
     
    Foam.
    On the question of window frames, with 30cm of "cavity" insulation, where abouts does the window frame go? i.e. just inside the outside skin? mid cavity with sleeves between it and the front and back of the wall.
    Frank
    • CommentAuthorTerry
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2008
     
    Vrogum do some with cork thermal breaks laminated into the frame.
    There was a very informative thread on the AECB forum on this subject. cant seem to find it to link
    My conclusion was that there was very little to be gained from what is an involved process. Much easier and more effective to look at internal shuttering or other measures.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2008
     
    Best place for the frame is fully on the outside of the inside skin.

    There is a lot to be gained by insulating wooden frames.
    • CommentAuthorTerry
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2008
     
    How so Tony?
    My thinking is that it is a very small bit of the overall envelope, and the amount of time (ie days of the year)that it is cold enough to warrant doing something about it is very small.
    Weigh that against the added complexity and cost of making the window & door frames and I think it is well into diminished returns territory.
    Far cheaper and easier to put up thick curtains or insulated shutters for those few cold months - doubley so because this helps with the thermal performance of the glasing as well.
    •  
      CommentAuthorrogerwhit
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2008
     
    The insulative laminae will have to be very cohesive - pressure from the compressed weatherseals and glazing gaskets will tend towards de-laminating a weaker layer.

    I've been puzzling how to do this for a while. One answer - through fixings - if metal, wld be a thermal bridge. I ought to experiment with cork - must get a sample ...
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2008
     
    They already do it for Passivhaus spec windows

    With triple glazing and good edge spacers which are insulated the wood frame becomes the weakest link and we all know what happens to the weakest link

    :jumping:
    • CommentAuthorTerry
    • CommentTimeJul 13th 2008
     
    Roger, I believe the cork is just glued in as per normal laminating because of the cold bridging, but you cannot just use any old cork, partly for the reasons you mentioned. As I understand it the cork comes in sheets of chopped up cork held together with binders of some sort.
    We looked into this a bit a while back as we are making our windows from laminated oak and thought it would be a simple addition to the process, but you have to use a suitable grade of cork sheet and the right glues etc etc. I was struggling to get advice on it and it all seemed a bit new to get any meaningful info. Also the thermal performance of the cork did not seem very good and it was not cheap as I recall. It all seemed a bit complicated for very little gain, hence my comments above.
    That said, I believe there are manufacturers seriously looking into this and there are supposed to be developments afoot. Possibly a bit early in the evolution of these products.
    Bear in mind, my comments are made as a keen amateur, rather than someone who actually knows what they are talking about :bigsmile:
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJul 13th 2008
     
    They laminate in a strip of rigid foamed insulation on the continent -- seems to be glued together to the wood facing in both sashes and frames.
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