Green Building Forum - Battery powered everything Tue, 19 Dec 2023 08:30:12 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Battery powered everything http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=297967#Comment_297967 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=297967#Comment_297967 Sun, 02 Oct 2022 11:31:28 +0100 Rex
Given the thread http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17569&page=1#Item_0

and the issues regarding standard batteries, I am 'concerned' at the way we appear to being 'guided' into battery everything. Lawn mowers, hedge trimmer, strimmers, chain saws, leaf vacs, nail guns, routers, sanders, multi-tools, planers, vacuum cleaners, loud speakers and of course, cars.

All these need recharging at some point and in all likelihood, will not do the job on a single charge. I trimmed my hedge recently, took around 4 hours using a mains electric (only had to stop of refreshment!) and petrol hedge (one tank of petrol) trimmer. How long with it have taken with battery and what is the added convenience?

I live in Surrey and go to the south coast for windsurfing. Where I go, there are no EV charging facilities and with a 200 mile round trip, going by an EV is not a sensible option. On the other hand, a full tank of diesel and I could go there and back many times.

It seems to me to be madness; but what do I know? Time will tell.]]> Battery powered everything http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=297968#Comment_297968 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=297968#Comment_297968 Sun, 02 Oct 2022 11:55:34 +0100 Beau
My battery hedge trimmer would have probably done that in one but I do have two batteries. The battery seems to last an age when hedge trimming.

Looks like I would need both batteries as the AP 300 batteries can do up to 180mins cutting https://www.stihl.co.uk/STIHL-Products/Cordless-power-systems/AP-System-Large-Gardens-Professionals/AP-System-Hedge-Trimmers/22107-1590/HSA-66-Cordless-Hedge-Trimmer.aspx]]> Battery powered everything http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=297969#Comment_297969 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=297969#Comment_297969 Sun, 02 Oct 2022 12:10:23 +0100 Peter_in_Hungary
Re windsurfing - The latest EVs are seeming to get 250 - 300 miles of range which together with a plug it in at home over night option should work and be less polluting than a 'dirty diesel' - all you have to do is pay for a new EV !]]> Battery powered everything http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=297971#Comment_297971 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=297971#Comment_297971 Sun, 02 Oct 2022 13:04:04 +0100 owlman Now, I think it's a lack of charging facilities that is partly the Achilles heel of widespread adoption of EVs, plus the price and availability. When you do find a charging station the payment for juice, at least some of the ones I've seen, is tedious having to go through an APP, instead of some sort of credit card system.]]> Battery powered everything http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=297972#Comment_297972 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=297972#Comment_297972 Sun, 02 Oct 2022 13:04:30 +0100 jamesingram Battery powered everything http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=297974#Comment_297974 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=297974#Comment_297974 Sun, 02 Oct 2022 13:09:13 +0100 jamesingram Battery powered everything http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=297975#Comment_297975 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=297975#Comment_297975 Sun, 02 Oct 2022 13:35:21 +0100 owlman So, we go full circle.]]> Battery powered everything http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=297976#Comment_297976 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=297976#Comment_297976 Sun, 02 Oct 2022 14:08:39 +0100 Artiglio Battery powered everything http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=297982#Comment_297982 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=297982#Comment_297982 Sun, 02 Oct 2022 21:49:17 +0100 djh Posted By: jamesingrambattery tools are great but theres definately some tools and jobs that need 240. drilling decent size holes is one.Indeed. My carpenters had the usual array of Makita cordless tools plus loads of spare batteries, but for some jobs would get out the 'electric' drill - a Hilti with a cable. That was used as you say when drilling serious holes in serious lumps of timber. The SDS drill was also 'electric', of course for drilling through concrete etc.

As others have said, the secret with electric garden tools is to have at least a second set of batteries. That's why the arguments about tool brands will continue until there really is a standard battery fitting. And yes, my hedge trimmer uses one of the four batteries I have for my lawnmower (it uses two at a time), but as Beau says batteries seem to last a fair while in hedge trimmers and strimmers and suchlike.

Where do you go windsurfing? There might be chargers closer than you think, and there are more popping up all the time. Our local council has just fitted six 'fast' chargers in the local leisure centre car park (under the masses of solar panels they've also fitted above it). IIRC all new chargers must accept contactless credit card charging without any apps, and eventually that'll apply to all chargers but not yet :(

As PiH says, a 200 mile round trip shouldn't be a big problem for a lot of new cars. Just don't trust the manufacturers' mileage figures though!]]> Battery powered everything http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=297987#Comment_297987 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=297987#Comment_297987 Mon, 03 Oct 2022 09:58:50 +0100 Rex
But these days, I do something with a 'sail' called a Kitewing and a two wheeled 'skateboard' and need large areas of flat, compressed sand. That means Camber Sands or Dungerness, which is around a 200 mile round trip. And there is no way anyone will install charging facilities in the parking area.

In inflatable version my wing is used these days for hydrofoiling surf boards. Mine has an aluminium frame to hold the shape.]]> Battery powered everything http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=297988#Comment_297988 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=297988#Comment_297988 Mon, 03 Oct 2022 10:21:06 +0100 WillInAberdeen
An 18v 9ah battery is around 0.15 kWh, and the battery machine is probably designed to use energy more efficiently than the petrol equivalent.

So two sets of charged batteries is still not quite a replacement for a tank of fuel, but it's not too far off and battery capacities are improving. It's rare that I would use a whole tank of fuel in one session.


Other issues for me are:
how many times the batteries can be charged before losing capacity, and whether I will still be able to buy replacements whenever that happens, or have to scrap the machine.
Also the weight of the battery tool to hold, versus the petrol engine version, especially for hedge trimmers.
Also the ongoing cost of petrol, oil, plugs and filters and time wasted fiddling with carburettors.
Also the safety aspects of storing petrol or cutting through the cable.]]> Battery powered everything http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=297993#Comment_297993 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=297993#Comment_297993 Mon, 03 Oct 2022 11:59:24 +0100 fostertom
Actually 18v @ 9ah is quite stonkin - pro? - I haven't seen than on any comsumer m/c e.g. 6ah max from Bosch ALL system.]]> Battery powered everything http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=297995#Comment_297995 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=297995#Comment_297995 Mon, 03 Oct 2022 13:52:01 +0100 WillInAberdeen Battery powered everything http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=297998#Comment_297998 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=297998#Comment_297998 Mon, 03 Oct 2022 17:22:44 +0100 fostertom Yes - there's the big battery, also Youtube hi-duty (chainsaw) comparison with a look-alike battery at 1/3 the price. Very informative indeed.

Continuing my *fascinating* story from http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17569. the Bosch strimmer has burnt out its motor a second time, so enough of Bosch. Anyone want a ALL charger and two batteries?

On Ryobi website, the bare trimmer is £!39.99, same with charger and 2ah battery £129.99 ("£70 off" then "£10 off"). No more questions - ordered it!]]> Battery powered everything http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=298001#Comment_298001 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=298001#Comment_298001 Mon, 03 Oct 2022 17:58:30 +0100 djh Posted By: WillInAberdeenSo two sets of charged batteries is still not quite a replacement for a tank of fuelAfter you use one set, you put them on charge and continue using the second set. After that, depending on your charger and batteries and how much you have to do, you either take the fully or partially charged first set out of the charger and carry on, or you stop to have a cup of tea whilst the charge finishes. Or you buy a third set of batteries, if you're really obsessive.

Don't forget that bigger batteries are heavier. So two 20 V 4 Ah in a lawnmower are fine, and so is one in a hedge trimmer or similar hand held tool for me, but if my wife was using it, she would probably want a 2 Ah battery. 9 Ah would be fine in a tool that was supported by itself, but not on a handheld I would think.]]> Battery powered everything http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=298002#Comment_298002 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=298002#Comment_298002 Mon, 03 Oct 2022 18:05:27 +0100 djh Posted By: fostertomBosch strimmer has burnt out its motor a second time Similar to my own decision to stop buying Bosch tools. Motor burnt out, would cost more to replace the motor than to buy a new strimmer. Bosch guarantee requires original packaging - who keeps that?]]> Battery powered everything http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=298005#Comment_298005 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=298005#Comment_298005 Mon, 03 Oct 2022 20:00:37 +0100 WillInAberdeen
Maybe one day all cars will have a 230V socket, and then nowhere will be out of reach of electric tools, rechargeable or otherwise. Maybe before then the weight of batteries will reduce, so I will no longer be concerned about
Posted By: WillInAberdeenthe weight of the battery tool to hold, versus the petrol engine version, especially for hedge trimmers.
]]> Battery powered everything http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=298006#Comment_298006 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=298006#Comment_298006 Mon, 03 Oct 2022 20:10:45 +0100 djh Posted By: WillInAberdeenAlso the weight of the battery tool to hold, versus the petrol engine version, especially for hedge trimmers.Battery tools are generally lighter than the petrol equivalent.]]> Battery powered everything http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=298007#Comment_298007 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=298007#Comment_298007 Mon, 03 Oct 2022 20:26:20 +0100 WillInAberdeen Battery powered everything http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=298012#Comment_298012 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=298012#Comment_298012 Tue, 04 Oct 2022 09:57:35 +0100 Cliff Pope
I have tried once driving a landrover to remoter locations and using an inverter and ordinary mains tools, but it needs a big inverter. Even one I thought was powerful enough had the speed but slowed up significantly once actually required to do real work.]]> Battery powered everything http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=298018#Comment_298018 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=298018#Comment_298018 Tue, 04 Oct 2022 12:47:31 +0100 djh Posted By: WillInAberdeenBut not with the biggest batteries on them, as I, you and your wife all agree!Right, but why would you put the biggest battery on a portable tool then? Better to have two or more smaller batteries.]]> Battery powered everything http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=298019#Comment_298019 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=298019#Comment_298019 Tue, 04 Oct 2022 12:51:50 +0100 djh Posted By: Cliff PopeI've sometimes thought that a good compromise would be to standardise all portable power tools at 12 volt, and then for remote situations carry a small car battery and use a light lead with a battery-shaped plug on the end.Maybe once it would have been but not now. Firstly lead acid car batteries have nothing like the energy density of lithium batteries, so you're carrying excess weight. Secondly, 12 V is much too low a voltage to standardise on. All the devices I have use 20 V, and some are going to 40 V or even 80V. Cars use 400 V and are moving to 800 V.]]> Battery powered everything http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=298023#Comment_298023 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=298023#Comment_298023 Tue, 04 Oct 2022 15:59:53 +0100 revor Battery powered everything http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=298026#Comment_298026 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=298026#Comment_298026 Tue, 04 Oct 2022 17:24:28 +0100 SteveZ
My Eckman extendable hedge trimmer is a mechanically well-made bit of kit. The electrical side of it is rubbish. The 20v li-ion battery failed after 14 months, funny that on a 12 month warranty! Checking any review website told me I was not alone. Needless to say, the sellers and manufacturers pretended ignorance of any problems and sheltered behind behind the 1 year warranty

As it was a well-made machine I made a set of offset strip connectors to use my deWalt drill battery instead, which worked OK. Eventually I got fed up with the slightly wobbly result and rebuilt the original Eckman battery using good cells from a scrap Bosch drill battery. I have a mini-welder and various bits to assemble, test and charge Li-ion batteries - just hobby stuff. The result is what the original strimmer should have been if they spent a little more attention on the rubbish charger, which caused a lot of the problems.

During my experiments with the thing I also made a belt fitted battery pack with a plug-in lead for the strimmer, which also worked pretty well too. It also made the tool lighter, but trimming our high hedges I kept pulling the lead off. Good idea though as the battery weight comes off the tool and sits easily around your waist.

The 20v copes with quite thick twigs and branches, about little finger thickness, so I am happy with 20v
Most 'failed' LI-ion batteries have only a few faulty cells but the charger/tester doesn't know that and can fail to charge. There are ways around that but beyond the scope of this comment and possibly dangerous! Whisper if you're interested.

I am a convert to battery power when suitable. An expensive 48v Stihl battery chainsaw only lasts 40 minutes of working hard, so useless for more a short trip to lop and chop a few branches.]]> Battery powered everything http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=298027#Comment_298027 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=298027#Comment_298027 Tue, 04 Oct 2022 18:14:24 +0100 WillInAberdeen Posted By: djh
Posted By: WillInAberdeenBut not with the biggest batteries on them, as I, you and your wife all agree!
Right, but why would you put the biggest battery on a portable tool then? Better to have two or more smaller batteries. because
Posted By: WillInAberdeenThere's no mains power at one of the sites where I use petrol machines
and
two sets of charged [9Ah] batteries is still not quite a replacement for a tank of fuel, but it's not too far off

Instead of taking along a tank of fuel, or two 9Ah batteries, I could take (say) nine pre-charged 2Ah batteries with me, but then the cost would become a bit silly. So I'm waiting a bit longer for battery capacity, price and weight to continue improving.

Site power tools are typically 110Vac , which is actually two phases at ±55Vac centre-tapped. I could see site battery tools standardising on 54Vdc for familiarity, even though DC can go to higher voltages and still be considered SELV.]]> Battery powered everything http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=298029#Comment_298029 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=298029#Comment_298029 Tue, 04 Oct 2022 19:52:43 +0100 djh Posted By: WillInAberdeenInstead of taking along a tank of fuel, or two 9Ah batteries, I could take (say) nine pre-charged 2Ah batteries with me, but then the cost would become a bit silly. So I'm waiting a bit longer for battery capacity, price and weight to continue improving.Well the 4Ah ones I buy in Lidl cost me £25, so five of those is £125 for 20 Ah @ 20 V. I see a single Ryobi 9 Ah @ 18 V is advertised on their site at £160. So I'm not sure where the silliness is. :bigsmile:]]> Battery powered everything http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=298030#Comment_298030 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=298030#Comment_298030 Tue, 04 Oct 2022 20:31:37 +0100 WillInAberdeen

Lithium batteries fundamentally are multiples of 3.6V cells, so five cells gives you 18V. However you can put a superficial surface charge on them to bump them up to 20V, if you have the kind of marketing department who indulge in that kind of thing!

(Edit to add: the standard cells hold around 2 to 3 Ah, so five of them in series makes a 18V 2Ah battery. To get 18V 4Ah you can use five sets each of two cells in parallel. As well as the extra charge, the parallel sets of cells can deliver more current, which is beneficial for some powerful garden tools such as brushcutters, which now seem to come with higher Ah batteries and might not work with the smaller batteries.)]]> Battery powered everything http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=298032#Comment_298032 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=298032#Comment_298032 Tue, 04 Oct 2022 22:11:56 +0100 tony Battery powered everything http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=298033#Comment_298033 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=298033#Comment_298033 Tue, 04 Oct 2022 23:15:52 +0100 fostertom Battery powered everything http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=298064#Comment_298064 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17591&Focus=298064#Comment_298064 Thu, 06 Oct 2022 19:38:33 +0100 revor
https://www.strikalite.co.uk/]]>