Green Building Forum - School new build design breif Tue, 19 Dec 2023 04:48:35 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 School new build design breif http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=194421#Comment_194421 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=194421#Comment_194421 Sat, 25 Jan 2014 09:34:24 +0000 SteamyTea So rather than loads of complicated technology, just build a place that is simple, energy efficient, uses technology to generate power, reduce technology that uses power, get rid of all the distractions (fancy 'coloured' lighting sounds like something an educationalist would dream up) and don't forget what a school is for. It is a factory for minimum education standards and buck passing.]]> School new build design breif http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=194422#Comment_194422 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=194422#Comment_194422 Sat, 25 Jan 2014 10:09:51 +0000 CWatters
You also need to think about disabled access if any buildings are on more than one floor.

Got to have solar PV roofs I would think.]]> School new build design breif http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=194424#Comment_194424 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=194424#Comment_194424 Sat, 25 Jan 2014 11:09:44 +0000 Jonti
I think the following would be a starter.

1. Good internal natural light in all areas
2. Even temperature maintained in all weather.
3. Good internal/external noise reductions
4. flexibility in the work area space for diverse function.
5. Minimal external distraction for working area.
6. Ease of movement around the complex
7. Dry movement around the complex
8. Good control of entry/exit points from the complex

much of this has already been mentioned in earlier posts

Jonti]]> School new build design breif http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=194429#Comment_194429 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=194429#Comment_194429 Sat, 25 Jan 2014 11:53:42 +0000 tony
anyone want to add to the don't wants, i thought of internal rainwater pipes]]> School new build design breif http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=194435#Comment_194435 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=194435#Comment_194435 Sat, 25 Jan 2014 13:24:55 +0000 Nick Parsons
Avoid unnecessary roof lights in flat or shallow-pitched roofs. Of course we all know they *can* be detailed properly, but they frequently are not. My kids' junior school had a mainly flat roof and occasional ''sticky-up dormers'' on shallow-pitched parts, with the cills almost at flat roof level. Blocked (internal) fall-pipes led to a pond and over-topping of the meagre upstand on the 'dormers'. Regular floods. Same issue on 'proper' flat-roof-roof-lights'.]]> School new build design breif http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=194447#Comment_194447 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=194447#Comment_194447 Sat, 25 Jan 2014 18:04:19 +0000 markocosic
External soil pipes freeze: not clever in any application.

External pipes = climbing frames: preferable not to have them in a school building from a maintenance standpoint. Make sure that the roof can drain freely even when they're blocked though (just overtops the edges of the roof, not pouring in via roof penetrations)


"How much control should teachers would be allowed over the learning environment in their classrooms?"

The building ought not to rely on teachers opening and closing windows AND it being cold outside in order to maintain acceptable CO2 concentrations. Lots of bodies in a small space fall asleep as they quietly gas themselves with CO2: levels of 2,000-4,000 ppm half an hour into lessons after a lunchbreak aren't uncommon. Less of a problem in nice large and draughty old schools that aren't overcrowded.

Scientists will get this - it's basic biology/physics/chemistry - and if they don't they ought not to be teaching. It's less likely that other disciplines will understand what's going on.

Comfort conditioning is better than allowing free choice but only if you get it right. Maintain 20-22C and 45-55% RH at "all" times without excessive air currents. Within that you can wear a jumper or install a desk fan to modify the perceived temperature easily enough. There are menopausal teachers that prefer the ability to crank TRVs up to 11 or throw windows wide open but this does the children no favours. A lot of so called "comfort conditioning" fails on air currents and CO2 levels.]]> School new build design breif http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=194451#Comment_194451 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=194451#Comment_194451 Sat, 25 Jan 2014 19:43:41 +0000 Nick Parsons School new build design breif http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=194461#Comment_194461 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=194461#Comment_194461 Sat, 25 Jan 2014 21:31:32 +0000 markocosic
Leaking toilets, feeding rainwater into the soil stack, and cast iron pipes are the worst offenders. People from countries with real winters generally LOL at our outdoor plumbing arrangements though!

Boxing is good if said boxing is insulated. I'd still prefer to see all unheated services to run within the building envelope though.

Do soil stacks leak regularly? What causes it?]]> School new build design breif http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=194480#Comment_194480 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=194480#Comment_194480 Sun, 26 Jan 2014 10:22:30 +0000 Doubting_Thomas
Another question - how is the build to be funded (or is this a speculative masterplan)?

If it's the standard central government route then it will most likely be using their (Design & Build) contracts which will mean you'll be fighting harder to get anything better than current Building Regs in terms of energy performance.

Not a big deal if you've got the legal clout to make sure the contracts are built around meeting PH performance, but I've repeatedly found that during the 'value engineering' phase that seems to be standard these days, a school will always prioritise teaching space over energy performance if they are forced to make a choice.

The more experienced PH school architects out there (Architype have already been mentioned) would probably have the arguments to point out that it doesn't need to cost any more than a standard build, however I'm not sure I've seen a certified PH school that's been built as D&B in this country yet...]]> School new build design breif http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=194505#Comment_194505 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=194505#Comment_194505 Sun, 26 Jan 2014 14:43:42 +0000 tony School new build design breif http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=194659#Comment_194659 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=194659#Comment_194659 Tue, 28 Jan 2014 12:30:23 +0000 woodgnome School new build design breif http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=203814#Comment_203814 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=203814#Comment_203814 Tue, 17 Jun 2014 12:14:18 +0100 tony School new build design breif http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=203821#Comment_203821 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=203821#Comment_203821 Tue, 17 Jun 2014 14:06:07 +0100 Doubting_Thomas Biggest question (in terms of knock-on effects). You'll probably want a structural engineer on hand too as this decision can also govern floor to ceiling heights and you can have the usual debate over concrete vs. steel vs. timber frame. Aside from the thermal mass argument, frame choice will also influence structural bays and therefore how much uninterrupted window opening you can get per classroom.

2. Ceiling vs. Soffit
Assuming you adopt some form of heat recovery you then need to understand where the supply and extract ducts are running. This will likely need an acoustician's input on noise transfer between classrooms and circulation which should open up a conversation around attenuated bulkheads (corridor side or classroom side), and exposed soffit (and exposed services) with acoustic baffles vs. suspended ceiling (yuk). NOTE: this usually brings the topic back to frame choice as the structural soffit would be on show (CLT looks good, pre-cast planks need attention to avoid untidy edges, trapezoidal steel deck always looks like a retail shed).

3.Daylight factor
Natural ventilation proportions tend to work well with natural daylight requirements in terms of room depth but if you end up at MVHR you might find you need to explore the 'daylight autonomy' argument to avoid deep plan spaces. Structural soffit colour (natural vs. paint) could also influence reflected light levels.

4. Night-purging
If it's a private school I'm assuming it's on a nice remote secure site and you can look into night-time purging to pre-cool the building before school starts. This has its own implications in terms of automated BMS systems (simpler the operation the better) vs a diligent 'estates manager' (janitor) opening some high-level windows whilst locking up. Oh and mosquito/pigeon ingress...

5. Waste Heat
On a more leftfield tack, how about using the school swimming pool as a thermal store? (private school right?- they must have one!)

That's all I can think of for now.]]> School new build design breif http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=203834#Comment_203834 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=203834#Comment_203834 Tue, 17 Jun 2014 18:08:24 +0100 willie.macleod School new build design breif http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=203844#Comment_203844 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=203844#Comment_203844 Tue, 17 Jun 2014 20:19:00 +0100 orangemannot An excuse for Biologists (aka fornicating Frog counters) to camoflage themselves among the Chemists and Physists.
imho!
PS
Def do not want "pods", for a while I got the distinct impression they were an obligitary installation in schools.

I too cannot understand the need to feed Architects ego's and bank balances with unique/cutting edge be-spoke designs for each and every site.

Which will probably be defective and neglected and get a clat from a digger in 20 or 30 years.

However I do appreciate that some spaces simply "work" and others dont, how much though is down to good design, as against serindipity?

PPS
Our 1960's (by the look of it) local Primary school is bright, airy and spotless and an absolute pleasure to be in, which is simply more to do with ALL the staff, both ancillaries and teachers, than the building structure itself..


Then.
Consider, on going/long term
Maintenance
maintenance,
maintenance
and
maintenance.
signed
G, M &Twitch]]> School new build design breif http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=203846#Comment_203846 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=203846#Comment_203846 Tue, 17 Jun 2014 20:49:28 +0100 djh Posted By: orangemannotThere is no such subject as Science.
"All science is either physics or stamp collecting" (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Ernest_Rutherford)

An excuse for Biologists (aka fornicating Frog counters) to camoflage themselves among the Chemists and Physists.
imho!

These days some of the best biologists *are* physicists (as are some of the best chemists ...)]]> School new build design breif http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=203860#Comment_203860 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=203860#Comment_203860 Tue, 17 Jun 2014 22:07:31 +0100 orangemannot Senior Managment was quare an fond of quoting that first statement as attributed to Rutherford.
Her being an Astrophysist, and from St. Andrews/Old Hall too.
There was apparently a bit o in-breeding in our family tree so I needed to freshen up the blood-line!
m]]> School new build design breif http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=205214#Comment_205214 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11645&Focus=205214#Comment_205214 Wed, 09 Jul 2014 18:18:44 +0100 tony