Solar that isn't 'fuel', in that it's too low-grade to be packaged or piped or otherwise transmitted or sold to anyone else, but can only be used right where it's collected (where it may be stored, too).

Low grade (i.e. no higher grade than it needs to be, for the intended use) means effortless, maybe lo-tech, but very efficient collection/conversion of incident radiation.

As it can't be sold/transmitted, it's not a market commodity, so its 'price' won't be dragged up (regardless of 'real' cost) by substitutability with other, increasingly scarce energy sources.

after oil and gas get too expensive

What about WOOD, its my only fuel in the crumble down cottage.

Andrew, the problem with wood is that there is nowhere enough of it for everyone if they wanted to use it now so we would finish up with total deforestation and no wood for anyone even if we could live through the smoke and smog.

Posted By: tonyWhat are our options for fuels in the future?

My list

1) Solar

2) Electricity

3)Electricity from Nuclear

4) Solar PV

5) Electricity from Tidal, Hydro, Geothermal, small ammount of wind and wave

Are you suggesting we pick one? The energy mix in the future will be diverse, as it is now. Gas and coal will work alongside nuclear and renewables for a long time yet, probably until reserves are depleted enough to make them uneconomical (so maybe 50-100 years for gas, 100+ years for coal). Nuclear in some form will be with us for a very very long time.

I can see new renewables slowly increasing up to may 30-50% of electricity in the next few decades, although uptake will be highly variable around the world. I can't see hydrogen gaining much ground as an energy carrier unless we can get that figure much higher and start electrolysing in bulk, there's not much point in a hydrogen economy if we're just reforming IMO. Some suggest it would be possible using large-scale CCS, but the prospects for CCS aren't really looking that good from what I've read. All of which means transport will stay largely oil-based for several decades at least, as we need a lot of improvement in battery technology to fully electrify.

I agree with Seret in that it will need a mixture of energy sources. Most of the comments on here seem to think that it needs to be a ONE source solution which is ill informed and narrow minded.

Jonti

I was just suggesting that WOOD it was missed of the initial list. Personally im with Secret it will have to be a mix of all the above.

However if it is up to us on the GBF to find the answer then my money is on some yet undiscovered power supply from outer space, just look at the Starship Enterprice and captain kirk, they went light years and never seemed to re-fuel.

Did anyone get my 2 points about the significance of 'non-fuel' solar collection

Posted By: fostertomLow grade (i.e. no higher grade than it needs to be, for the intended use) means effortless, maybe lo-tech, but very efficient collection/conversion of incident radiation.

and

Posted By: fostertomAs it can't be sold/transmitted, it's not a market commodity, so its 'price' won't be dragged up (regardless of 'real' cost) by substitutability with other, increasingly scarce energy sources.

Oh, ta

Posted By: SteamyTeaBugger, going to have to do it now

Thats the persuasive power of Tom Foster. Should of kept your head down.

What do you mean by "fuel"? It's often used to mean an energy source for vehicles. But perhaps you mean primary energy source? There are lots of ways to make fuel from practically any energy source.

Posted By: tonynon polluting

Hydro is out then (old news resurrected and mentioned on here before):
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/08/120807132306.htm

Posted By: tonyAndrew, the problem with wood is that there is nowhere enough of it for everyone if they wanted to use it now so we would finish up with total deforestation and no wood for anyone even if we could live through the smoke and smog.

We have plenty of wood if used efficiently in micro CHP units like the Otag Bison what we dont have is timber to fuel dinosaur power stations like Stevens Croft at 25% efficiency.

John, is there any info in English on the Otag Bison system?

(Appears that the Naviron lot are experiencing the same language problems.)

What I would like to see as our energy system: there must be more but these will do to start

Baseload Supply
Nuclear option
Spend money (a few £billion) on research and actually develop a standard Molten Thorium Salt Reactor. Factory built at truck trailer size so no more big nuclear sites, just lots of fail-safe small ones. Licence the design world-wide to avoid monopolistic problems. Use up the existing high-grade nuclear waste in them. Thorium is widely distributed around the world, especially in India, which is short of Uranium ore. There is more Thorium ore buried by the US government now than we could use in a 1000 years at present energy consumption rates.This would also remove the US moratorium on the use of rocks containing Thorium to obtain the Rare Earth Metals associated with Th, so the world's supply of REMs would vastly increase

Geothermal power plants where the geology is suitable. Small surface footprint and almost a closed system. They can use and recycle water for high temp areas or a binary system if the temp is too low for water

Waste Pyrolysis, not incineration or Anaerobic digestion. A closed system producing more than the power it uses to run itself, plus useful fuel gas or liquid fuel via a small scale Fischer-Tropf reactor, and a valuable bio-char by-product. Raw material could be a problem if we really get to grips with recycling, but I don't think it's going to happen any time soon

Reliable intermittent
Tidal turbines around our coasts, given the daily variance in local tide times it is almost continuous. Out of sight but need regular maintenance

Intermittent
Solar farms and small scale domestic and commercial. Marginal in this country but pretty good where the sun shines regularly
VAWT windfarms - early work on closely-packed VAWTs indicates an energy per unit area covered ratio several times higher than a typical HAWT. They don't need to be very high and don't produce the noise associated with HAWT tip speeds and their gearboxes, so might be more acceptable in more places

What I suspect we will get, courtesy of vested interests and political short term thinking

More conventional nuclear. possibly with added Beryllium to increase the heat transfer and prolong the fuel rod life
Lots of Shale gas, natural gas, coal, possibly with CO2 capture
More damned HAWT wind turbines

Nothing like a good rant, is there?