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Housing - Renovation: Recommended smoke alarms?

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    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeJan 14th 2016 edited
     
    Can anybody recommend a good smoke alarm?

    Needs to be:
    1. Mains powered.
    2. Hardwired interlink with 2 core + earth cable (not wireless).
    3. Compact, white, simple, least amount of stupid frilly bits as possible.
  2.  
    On the last house we fitted Aico. They can be fitted wired or with a wireless base add on (which adds a litte height). They're made of good quality (slightly off white) plastic that didn't seem to discolour over the 5 years or so that they were fitted and we didn't have to replace any. If you do have to replace them the base stays in place and the new alarm just clips in.

    However, they need a link wire in addition to L/N/E - I'm pretty sure all wired alarms do?
    http://www.aico.co.uk/How-do-I-wire-hard-wired.html
    https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Manufacturers/AICO/Smoke_Alarms_Mains_Lithium/index.html

    This time I fitted one of these ESP panels -
    https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Fire_and_Smoke/Fire_Detection_Systems/Fire_Detection_ESP/index.html

    Lower total cost (Aico mix of optical and heat+smoke = £360 vs Panel plus 8 sensors/4 alarms £225) but more effort to install and commission. The sensors are more discreet BUT they get rather high when you add on the sounder base. I'd probably just use Aico again next time.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJan 15th 2016
     
    As Simon says you need a 3 core + earth interlink wire.

    We fitted the Aico ones and are happy with them. I got the version with the replaceable battery rather than the lithium ones and then bought some ten-year batteries.
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeJan 15th 2016 edited
     
    Had me worried there! I've checked and we did indeed run 3 core + earth, phew.

    At first I was interested in fitting Nest Protect smoke alarms but we have 8 alarms to fit (because we're keeping our original doors and they're not FD30), which would cost £712!! And you can't hardwire them.

    Thanks, I'll take a look at the Aico ones. Also looking at the BRK alarms.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJan 15th 2016
     
    Posted By: ShevekHad me worried there! I've checked and we did indeed run 3 core + earth, phew.

    Yes, it looks confusingly similar to a 2.5 mm T+E, at least mine did.
  6.  
    I'd always thought Nest were battery only but I looked at the instructions awhile back and you CAN hardwire.
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeJan 15th 2016
     
    Posted By: Simon StillI'd always thought Nest were battery only but I looked at the instructions awhile back and you CAN hardwire.

    I mean for interlink, not power.
  8.  
    Ok - and what's your issue with radio interlink? I didn't have any issues with my wireless Aico
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeJan 15th 2016
     
    1. Reliability
    2. One of my co-habitators has a thing about proliferating wifi devices in the house.
    3. We've run the cables so we might as well use em.
    • CommentAuthorcjard
    • CommentTimeJan 15th 2016
     
    I've just fitted the ESP conventional panel that SImon linked to; works for me from a logical point of view - buy £500 worth of fire alarm system, get notified and get out in 2 minutes before the smoke gets us, or pay a surcharge of over nearly 15 times that for the fire door version of the doors she wants, and suffocate anyway when one of them is left ajar

    Seemed a no-brainer to me. I was even tempted to get one of the addressable ones
    • CommentAuthorrhamdu
    • CommentTimeJan 20th 2016
     
    You don't want a mains alarm waking you in the night just because its backup battery is exhausted. I think you will find some of the leading brands do exactly this. If someone can tell me a brand which definitely won't... :smile:
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJan 20th 2016 edited
     
    Posted By: rhamduYou don't want a mains alarm waking you in the night just because its backup battery is exhausted. I think you will find some of the leading brands do exactly this. If someone can tell me a brand which definitely won't... :smile:

    Aren't they all required to do it? But they start with an occasional beep that slowly gets more frequent over the days. Or have I just been lucky?

    Edit: I should also have said soft beep, that gets louder as well as more frequent over time. There's no way it would wake me at the start. I usually have to hunt round the house because I've forgotten what the little chirp means.
    • CommentAuthorvord
    • CommentTimeJan 20th 2016
     
    I don't think my Gent system does that. It is an industrial system fair enough but the box wines at you when it wants to complain about something rather than go into full alarm mode. Damned good system and not so expensive if you fit it yourself (no idea if you are allowed to fit them yourself - not looked at the rules but I imagine it would be better than not having a system at all).
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeJan 20th 2016
     
    Trouble is they beep when the battery voltage gets low which is when the house is colder at night. But then, in a modern house the temperature shouldn't be varying that much anyway so the chances are it won't start beeping when you're asleep.

    Still, having the box wine you would definitely be an improvement over it whining at you.
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeJan 21st 2016
     
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeJan 21st 2016 edited
     
    "The alarm shall have a separate green LED mains indicator light to confirm integrity of mains power supply."

    "The alarm shall have a separate red LED which will flash every 40 seconds to indicate full auto test of circuitry and the rechargeable cells"

    I really don't want this in the bedrooms. How do we avoid this (apart from fitting FD30 doors)?
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJan 21st 2016 edited
     
    Posted By: ShevekThis is handy:
    http://www.aico.co.uk/New-Smoke-Alarm-Specification-Selector-Tool.html

    It doesn't seem to distinguish between new build and existing properties? It's illegal to fit battery-only alarms in a new build but it doesn't point this out.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJan 21st 2016
     
    Posted By: ShevekI really don't want this in the bedrooms. How do we avoid this (apart from fitting FD30 doors)?

    You're not required to fit them in bedrooms.

    Alternatively, sticky tape or tippex! Or coloured translucent plastic to make the lights acceptably dim.
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeJan 21st 2016 edited
     
    We are because we're 2 storey with a loft conversion and we want to keep our original doors, which aren't FD30.
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeJan 21st 2016
     
    Something like this maybe:
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/LightDims-BLACK-OUT-EDITION-electronics/dp/B009WSN8PK

    This is one problem the Nest Protect solves.
    • CommentAuthorSimon Still
    • CommentTimeJan 21st 2016 edited
     
    Posted By: Shevek"The alarm shall have a separate green LED mains indicator light to confirm integrity of mains power supply."

    "The alarm shall have a separate red LED which will flash every 40 seconds to indicate full auto test of circuitry and the rechargeable cells"

    I really don't want this in the bedrooms. How do we avoid this (apart from fitting FD30 doors)?


    I'd forgotten we had one of these in our bedroom for many years - it never bothered me. Certainly the LEDs were not bright enough to keep me awake. Tippex or tape if it does.

    Posted By: ShevekWe are because we're 2 storey with a loft conversion and we want to keep our doors, which aren't FD30.


    Which is why we had them in our last place. A

    Posted By: djh
    It doesn't seem to distinguish between new build and existing properties? It's illegal to fit battery-only alarms in a new build but it doesn't point this out.


    It seems to allow you to specify lots of things that aren't allowed - it doesn't take account of whether fire doors are fitted.
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeJan 21st 2016
     
    Christ almighty, don't these companies have ugly police?
      Ei1529RC.jpg
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeJan 21st 2016
     
    These Honeywell Gent alarms don't appear to the have the permanent LED lights that others have:
    https://www.gent.co.uk/downloads/products/specification_243.pdf
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJan 21st 2016
     
    Sorry , when you say 2 storey with a loft conversion, you effectively mean 3 storey? I don't know about regs for that; fire doors make no difference for 2 storeys. But the web pages I see all say that alarms in bedrooms are optional, not required. Alarms in circulation spaces so they are audible in bedrooms are mandatory. Or have the regs changed recently or something?
    • CommentAuthorcjard
    • CommentTimeJan 22nd 2016 edited
     
    Alarm in bedroom may be required if the circulation space alarm cannot achieve 75db at the bed head

    Fire doors may be required in a two storey depending on the height of the storeys


    The regs say very little about.. Well, anything really. It's probably something like "means of early warning and inhibiting the spread of fire shall be provided to adequately ensure life is preserved and disproportionate collapse does not occur"

    The approved documents will go into a lot more detail, but they are just one way the Secretary of State deems e law may be complied with

    The bs documents (5839) will go into great depth


    If you can satisfy your inspector that a bs5839 compliant system is in place, it will likely put an end to any further line of inquiry
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeJan 22nd 2016
     
    Yeah, sorry, I meant 2 storey + loft conversion. So 3 storey.
  27.  
    Not pretty the remote controls. Ours was in the understair cupboard next to the CU so didn't matter. Only time it was ever touched was to demo the alarms to the inspector. I'm not convinced it's necessary
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeJan 22nd 2016
     
    With 8 alarms I think I'd like to be able to turn them all off at once, at least from each floor level.
  29.  
    Yes - if you ever got a false alarm you'd want to silence it pretty quickly. Surprisingly we never did.
    • CommentAuthorcjard
    • CommentTimeJan 22nd 2016
     
    Never got a false? Probably because he proper gear is quite different to an ionising smoke alarm with a 9v battery. Those types use a radioactive source and detector, the smoke blocks the radiation and the alarm goes off. Incredibly sensitive. Fire panel ones more likely to be optical or heat on,y for places like the kitchen. Good stuff!

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