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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
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  1.  
    I have an isolated property fed from a mountain source in Les Corbieres, Languedoc. The climate here is getting dryer, and hotter- indeed we have not had good long rain for nearly 14 months. With 200 olives, a young orchard and a small but thirsty vegetable garden, water is becoming a key issue. The first step is to fit guttering and water butts to collect what rain we do get, that is underway, the next point is what level of water can we recycle and how. We already use a basic system, a bucket, of using the kitchen water for the loo. However I need to do some plumbing work to get the back boiler and solar water heating systems installed, at the same time I would like to install a grey water capturing system on the kitchen sink, shower and bathroom basin- can someone point me in the right direction to find more information on how grey water works- because I have a septic tank there issues with what products we use in the kitchen and shower, we tend to only use ‘natural’ cleaning products, can grey water be used to irrigate an orchard or is purely for the loo?

    Thanks for any ideas.

    Peter
  2.  
    Water from baths, showers and washing up can all be used, but not water from dishwashers and washing machines, if my memory serves me right from Gardeners' Question Time. Also use mulches and membranes to stop water loss by evaporation. There's some useful stuff and further reading here:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/gardening/tv_and_radio/factsheets/pages/21.shtml
    • CommentAuthorarthur
    • CommentTimeApr 11th 2007
     
    I imagine that it depends what you're putting in your washing machine. But allowing it to seep through the earth filters fairly well.
    this always seems like a great source of info to me.
    http://www.oasisdesign.net/greywater/
    It recommends wariness of STORING greywater - especially in hot conditions. You'd probably need to empty daily or even just draining it straight to the earth where required.
  3.  
    Arthur and Marionhaste,
    Thanks for your comments, much appreciated- especially about the storage.
    Sorry for the delay in getting back have been away fro a few days
    Peter
    • CommentAuthorchuckey
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2007
     
    Sorry to hi-jack your thread, but I have been contemplating the issue of grey water. What I have been thinking about was to collect the rainwater and grey water in a tank/butt and then pump it into a storage tank in the loft and then using it to flush the loos. Isolated technical buildinng use rainwater roof collection for their loos. But GREY water, will it foam and look disgusting? also not heard of the not storing it advice, what happens if you do, is it the coagullation of the soap that blocks stuff up?
    Frank
    • CommentAuthorJane Smith
    • CommentTimeApr 21st 2007
     
    I read recently that 95% of greywater schemes are abandoned within 5 years of installation, mostly due to problems with the water turning rancid during storage and sludge and grease blocking pipework. Rainwater collection is a different thing--far easier, as there's no need to treat the water collected. Greywater will turn unpleasant within 12 hours if it's not treated (usually with small amounts of chlorine bleach, I think), so these systems need a lot of monitoring to work well.

    What ever you decide to do, don't mix rainwater and greywater--have separate systems for each, if you have to have both.
    • CommentAuthorGuest
    • CommentTimeApr 21st 2007
     
    I'd just like to add my support for what Jane Smith posted. I was a triallist for a scheme run by the Environment Agency and of the dozen or so of us who started I think everybody ended up taking the system out..... mainly because the systems became pretty foul if the chlorination failed.

    Keeping grey water is not really the best way to save water. I was able to achive much better savings with a urinal system for the males of the household.

    Play with your roof water by all means, but I'd never play with the gray water again for re-use.

    There is, however a lot to be said for heat recovery from grey water.
    • CommentAuthordragonbc
    • CommentTimeApr 21st 2007
     
    Try using a waterless loo . For info on grey water systems try www.rotaloo.co.uk
    • CommentAuthorarthur
    • CommentTimeMay 1st 2007
     
    grey water's great - just don't store it. Use it straight away. The big advantage over rainwater is that you produce it all year round whereas in many climates you need to store a hell of a lot of rain in the wet season to make it last through the dry.
    Washing machine water's probably not good if you're washing babies nappies and putting it on fruit and veg - keep it off the fruit!
    With that many trees its a shame not to use the greywater.
    • CommentAuthorGuest
    • CommentTimeMay 3rd 2007
     
    I've got a system riged up that works well, i've young children so we get through a lot of bath water, i've simply routed the bath out flow via a hose pipe and straight onto the garden, since its coming from higher up than the garden there's always plenty of preasure, when its not required the hose attachment can be disconected the water poor into the drain, as for the toilet, if it's yellow let it mellow, if its brown flush it down.
  4.  
    I'm all for not flushing the lav, bar first wee of the morning and poos. I can't bear the thought of all that clean water going to waste.
    •  
      CommentAuthorIain
    • CommentTimeMay 4th 2007
     
    Peter,

    I'd seriously think about refitting all of your household water appliances to low use types before you embark on any greywater recycling system. Low flow WCs, taps, showers, and water economic dishwashers/washing machines are the best first steps towards reduction. As far as greywater recycling goes I'd questions whether this is worthwhile. Others have mentioned the costs and difficulties involved and as your foul water is already treated by your municipal water works why install a system that is less efficient privately than rely on their operation? Get your money's worth from your council tax/water rates. :smile:
    • CommentAuthorarthur
    • CommentTimeMay 5th 2007
     
    "Get your money's worth from your council tax/water rates."

    Or get a water meter and don't pay so much in water rates.

    And dishwashers are for wimps! :)
  5.  
    Urm, I think i will start with the rain water capturing system- the problem we had less than 100 mm last year, from February to February it didn't rain at all. I have a diviner scanning the land looking for alternative sources, with the idea of digging in one or two large unground tanks above the property to gravity feed the irrigation sysytem for the olives (Believe it or not they are thirsty fellows if you are growing them for fruit) and for the vegetable garden. I don't use washing machines or dish washers at the moment- with PV power supply they aren't really much of an option if you want a hot wash anyway.Luckily on the nappy front I have grown out of mine recently and don't plan on having any more around the house for some time.
    thanks everyone
    pete
    • CommentAuthorken davis
    • CommentTimeMay 10th 2007
     
    peter, have a look at : aquastore-com
    its on google , don't have any practical knowledge but the info. looks good.
    • CommentAuthorAnke
    • CommentTimeMay 11th 2007
     
    I've run a little experiement over the last year since my water meter was fitted and have managed to use only 24 cm3 of water over the last 12 months (single person household with small/medium size garden).

    All I do is to collect my bath and shower water in a large plastic bin in the bathroom and use it to flush the loo. I had a stop tap fitted to the water supply for the cistern that makes is easy to stop mains water being used.
    Transfer from bin to cistern is currently 'manual' by using a small bucket. I have debated if this could be 'automated' to some extend, but see no easy way without using an electric pump or similar, so for now elbow grease is all that is used.

    The water is used up pretty rapidly, so storage is not an issue (in the UK). If the water starts to smell I put it in the garden, disinfect the bin and start again. I have used very little fresh water this year for filling the loo, and most of that was used when I had visitors staying over.

    This approach has reduced my total water cost from £40 per month on rates to less than £10 per month on the meter - including a 15p rise in the cost per cm3 over the year. I experiemented once with using water from the washing machine, but decided it was too dirty and there was too much to store, though I might decide to use some of it in the garden if need be in summer. Most of my washing up water also ends up in the garden.

    The main issue with this approach is the space required for the waste water storage bin. Just for myself this approach work fine, but with several people in a household I suspect not all bathwater could be stored, but then you would also need more water to flush the toilet, so maybe with a staggered approach to spread showering and bathing over e.g. morning and evenings this could be addressed ;-)

    Next on my list is to link my rainwater butt to the loo cistern. As the house is on a slope I think I should get enough pressure to fill the cistern via a hose pipe link and a lockable Y-adapter to the mains pipe. I'll keep youposted as I progress..
    • CommentAuthorGuest
    • CommentTimeMay 11th 2007
     
    Just found this site, it's good to know I'm not just some lone loony!

    Anke - you might be interested in my first go a greening up. we have downstairs loo used a LOT anda large number of watre butts for the garden so I cobbled together a system that pumped a rainwater supply for the toilet

    Just a car battery, 12v relay, 5 watt solar panel(ebay), 2 little float switches (ebay again) and a caravan pump - maybe £40 all in.

    By giving the rainwater supply its own pipe and putting a float switch in the cistern I've got a refill time of a bout 40 seconds between flushes and enough solar power left over to deal with eight mobiles, 4 MP3 players, 2 digital cameras and a nicad charger.

    First thing I've tried like that - boy do I feel smug! - by the way by juggling the water level and submerging the float on the ball valve I was able to get the cistern to fill off the mains by itself when the rain water gave out
    • CommentAuthorGuest
    • CommentTimeMay 12th 2007
     
    (PDobson)
    I am interested in installing a water recycling system - The rainwater seems pretty straightforward but I was also going to arrange the plumbing such that shower and bath water could be diverted to the rainwater tank when it got down to say 20% capacity. We would be using the water for loos and garden water with a bypass for the loos to mains if the recycled water ran out. What are your thoughts - should I separate the two systems completely and just have a water butt for the grey water to allow watering of the garden daily so keeping storage to a minimum - or could you just keep a stock of chlorine tablets for use in the main tank if and when there was a problem?
    • CommentAuthorJane Smith
    • CommentTimeMay 12th 2007
     
    Keep the two systems (rainwater and grey water) separate. You'll need more than chlorine tablets for the grey water--it requires frequent testing and far more filtering, and at a finer rate, than rainwater. And make sure that you have non-return valves everywhere to make sure the rainwater/grey water can't be siphoned back into the mains water system--something which Guest hasn't seemed to have sorted out. Not only is this a legal requirement, it's essential for basic health and hygene.
    • CommentAuthorPDobson
    • CommentTimeMay 13th 2007
     
    Hm. I think I will plug the grey water feed directly into some sort of garden irrigation system so that in dry weather I can divert the water into that to be used immediately/within 24 hrs. The cross contamination issue with rain water into the mains should be taken care of by the rainwater harvesting system I intend putting in. This separate waste water system will at least allow me to keep watering the garden in dry spells without having to try and set up siphoning systems or using a watering can to empty the bath!
    • CommentAuthorPDobson
    • CommentTimeMay 13th 2007
     
    As a separate issue is it worth adding runoff water from a paved area to the rainwater system or is that likely to have the same issues as using grey water and significantly increase my filtering/treatment issues.
    • CommentAuthorarthur
    • CommentTimeMay 13th 2007
     
    I think it was mentioned on the old forum but I'd be interested to know about anyone with any experience with manual pumps. It seems a shame to use electrical pumps and it would be quite fun to use a manual pump for watering the garden (e.g. from underground storage tank) or for quickly refilling a cistern after you flush from a ground level tank. It seems to be the sort of technology thats so hard to come by nowadays - I also remember looking and failing to find a manual food mixer/blender thing (I think there's an expensive bicycle powered juicer thing you can buy if you've got money to burn).
    • CommentAuthorGuest
    • CommentTimeMay 13th 2007
     
    Arthur
    There are lots of manual pumps in the marine catalogues. Essential equipment for boating.
    • CommentAuthorGuest
    • CommentTimeMay 13th 2007
     
    Hi - I'm curious about the back syphoning issue.

    At the moment I'm relying on the anti-syphon arrangemnts of the existing cistern (the floppy tube), maintaining the air gap between inlets and highest water level, and making sure the overflow is set low enough to avoid the water in the cistern geting near the inlet valves.

    Do i need to do more? - I can put double check valves in easily enough, but I'd rather not at the moment, would more experienced hands recomend it?
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