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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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    • CommentAuthorandyman99
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2013 edited
     
    I've bought a USB borroscope camera to do some investigation work, primarily to check wall insulation and under floor void. So far the cavity wall insulation looks ok, though only just started looking. I thought I'd check what else I could see with the camera. Whilst peering over the "joist" closest to the wall I realised I could see the top edge of the plaster board from the bedroom below. I can see the top dabs used to fix the board to the wall. I'm pretty sure that means that warm air from the bedroom, behind the plasterboard is escaping straight into the loft. I can't think this is a good idea? The bedroom gets very cold overnight, how significant could this be? What would be the best way to seal this. Perhaps heat from the ground floor is rising straight into the loft too?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2013
     
    Very significant and I would be mega interested in a thermal image of the wall in question, where are you?
    • CommentAuthorandyman99
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2013
     
    Newbury, Berks. Just trying to see if I can also understand what happens at the first floor.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2013
     
    It is usually pretty windy in the floor void which is connected to outside in several ways including via the loft!
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2013
     
    Could you take photos of the gap?
    • CommentAuthorandyman99
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2013
     
    I have taken some stills, not sure how much they convey, the video with motion helps to understand what you are looking at. Can they be attached to the thread? If so I will need to re-size them first I think.
    • CommentAuthorandyman99
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2013
     
    View from loft down the cavity
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2013
     
    Upload the video to Youtube and copy the link into here. Works for me.
    • CommentAuthorandyman99
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2013
     
    Video not yet stored, I was just viewing it real time, but will have a go at that on Friday. What would be the best way to deal with the problem, I've come across a few threads that suggest using foam to seal the gap? I think that could be done in the loft, albeit an awkward job. But getting to the base of the plasterboard in the bedroom(s) to seal between ground floor and first floor wouldn't be so easy. It seems best practices have developed somewhat from when this hose was built.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2013
     
    But they still don't get used!
  1.  
    Obviously lifting boards at floor/ceiling jct is best, but how about: remove skirtings, cut off the bottom 50mm or so of pl'bd and hard plaster to fill the gap? Plastering doesn't have to be neat and, depending on slumping, may be able to be done in one hit. No need for finish, I think. Skirtings back on, and you're away.
    • CommentAuthorBeau
    • CommentTimeMar 7th 2013
     
    If removing skirting boards then drill holes big enough for the nozel of a PU foam gun and give a little squirt every 80mm-100mm this could also be done at top of room and covered with coving. Dont squeeze in to much foam as it could push the plasterboard of the wall.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeMar 7th 2013
     
    Thinny nozzle under the skirting? this will fill the gap at the edge of the floor too

    BUT it wont stop the draughts into the floor void from outside
    • CommentAuthorandyman99
    • CommentTimeMar 7th 2013
     
    Thanks for the ideas everyone. Downstairs will be ok to fill at the bottom as most of the skirting has already been replaced and most is now removable via screws. Some sealing has been done, but wont be complete since I hadn't quite realised the importance. Coving already downstairs, the plaster type which is not easy to remove, need to experiment there. Upstairs is the reverse, I think I can fill the top from the loft, but the skirting has not been off. May be I should insulate between rafters upstairs as well - I did one bedroom (over garage!) last year, since the floor is chipboard one was enough.
  2.  
    Posted By: andyman99May be I should insulate between rafters upstairs as well - I did one bedroom (over garage!) last year, since the floor is chipboard one was enough.
    Do you mean rafters or floor joists? You don't need to insulate the whole of the floor. If the issue is air leakage at the floor/wall junction then better just to fill the void at that point. Insulation isn't generally airtight, so better to use wood or foil faced insulation & polyurethane foam to seal these gaps.

    David
    • CommentAuthorandyman99
    • CommentTimeMar 8th 2013
     
    I did mean floor joist, yes - it certainly will be a lot easier to not lift all the floors up. I think my next purchase is some polyurethane foam. A plan of action is slowly forming.

    Andy
    • CommentAuthorandyman99
    • CommentTimeMar 12th 2013
     
    Just been looking for an expanding foam with low expansion capabilities as I dont want to blow the plasterboard off the wall. Found Insta Stik Foam Grab, but it seems a bit expensive. Would "Everbuild Pinkgrip Dry Fix Drywall Adhesive" be suitable for this job?
    • CommentAuthorBeau
    • CommentTimeMar 12th 2013
     
    Posted By: andyman99Just been looking for an expanding foam with low expansion capabilities as I dont want to blow the plasterboard off the wall. Found Insta Stik Foam Grab, but it seems a bit expensive. Would "Everbuild Pinkgrip Dry Fix Drywall Adhesive" be suitable for this job?


    Should work fine.
    It will still expand a bit just less than the standard stuff. For a good bond it works best if you can wet the surfaces as you go along. I use a cheap plant sprayer for the job. Are you buying a foam gun and separate cans or the all in one? The reason I ask is that you have much more control with the dedicated guns than the all in one cans and the foam is a bit cheaper.
    • CommentAuthorandyman99
    • CommentTimeMar 12th 2013
     
    Excellent. Yes I have found a combi, pack of 6 plus gun and cleaner which I thought sounded about right for starters. I have had some (less than pefect) experiences of using the hand held ones. Thanks for quick reply
    • CommentAuthorandyman99
    • CommentTimeMar 16th 2013 edited
     
    Made a start in the lounge, around the newish French doors. Uncovered this rather large hole direct into the cavity after cutting away small strip of the plaster - gales blowing in yesterday - these were put in by a window company so this is not the builders fault.
      DSCF5108.jpg
    • CommentAuthorandyman99
    • CommentTimeMar 16th 2013
     
    I filled in as much of the hole as posible and then used foam to seal the bottom of the plasterboard. It still expanded more than I expected, but that was my first attempt so I have a better idea now. My question is, although I will repeat this method on the other side of the window, is there any value in doing this around the whole of the room, i.e. removing a strip of plasterboard and sealing, as against drilling a few holes and injecting foam between daubs of the old adhesive? As the skirting is removable, drilling a few hols and injecting would be relatively easy. However if creating a complete band of foam between the floor and the bottom of the plasterboard would produce better results I will do that?
      DSCF5114.jpg
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeMar 16th 2013
     
    Nice work with the foam, I would masking tape newspaper to the floor first! or is that cardboard protection in the pic?

    Try to ensure foam fully fills all gaps and cracks.

    I used to very lightly mist with a house plant sprayer first to aid adhesion and setting before and after applying the foam.
    • CommentAuthorandyman99
    • CommentTimeMar 16th 2013
     
    Thanks! I have to say using the gun is much easier than the aerosol cans -I wanted to experiment at ground level before going into the loft, which will be a bit more awkward. Just to be clear would you continue around the skirting, cutting off a strip of the plasterboard and then creating a complete foam band or would you just inject through some holes, leaving the plasterboard down to the floor? The problem with just drilling holes is you can't really see what is behind, but would be easier.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeMar 16th 2013
     
    I would clear a track 15 to 22 at the bottom and foam as you are doing ensuring that the foam goes both up behind the board a bit and below the floor.

    No gaps or misses is the order of the day.

    I reckon that you could publish this job in GBM -- I am happy ho help with that too.
  3.  
    Can I just make a health and safety point re 'squirty foam', particularly when used in situations where the can may go well off the vertical? Safety glasses are usually adequate, but I had a visit to the eye casualty when foaming up below a floor. The angle of the can got so low that the foam sputtered, and the gun delivered propellant only, which bounced off the wall and in underneath my safety glasses. If access is tricky, get a long length of tubing. If your gun is like mine you will often use it without the tube, as the tube pops off under pressure. A jubilee clip will solve the problem.
    • CommentAuthorandyman99
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2013
     
    Thanks, I will look for some suitable tube, it will enable me to ensure I get some foam up behind the board which is difficult with the gun alone. I also experimented in the loft yesterday, this is more straightforward in principal just squirting down the gap, but again getting into the corners was not possible and there were a few times when I got a burst of propellant only - health and safety advice taken on board. So I have ground floor skirting and loft space techneques pretty much worked out. I Just need to find the best/least intrusive way to sort the junction between ground floor ceiling and first floor. Would be nice to be able to work just from the bedrooms downwards, i will need to find a place where I can view the results from below to test different techniques.
    • CommentAuthorandyman99
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2013
     
    Whilst cutting and squriting, I've found various areas that are missing cavity wall insulation, though most walls do show a sort of off white rockwool. I'm thinking of topping up these areas with polystyrene beads if that would be OK. I tried Sheffield Insulation, local Oxford branch, but they didn't seem to be able to help and a couple of other local merchants. Just want to check if anyone has any ideas on where to try and exactly what to ask for, so far I have been asking for EPS beads, but seem to be encountering a certain amount of head scratching
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2013
     
    Sheffield used to supply them in bags try another branch? It will work but beware wind can blow them about.
    • CommentAuthorandyman99
    • CommentTimeMar 22nd 2013
     
    Finally got a price, £13.59 + VAT for 0.28 m3. Does that sound about right? Everywhere I asked seem to think this is an "Inferior Product" and Micafill would be better?
    • CommentAuthorandyman99
    • CommentTimeMar 22nd 2013 edited
     
    Continuing the investigative work, now at bedroom floor level, I have started sealing the base of the plasteboard behind the skirting board. All went well until I reached far RHS of the first bedroom and discovered gales blowing in. Investigating further I uncovered an I beam or RSJ? This takes the weight of the bedroom rear wall over the lounge. The lounge, for some reason, extends beyond the rest of the house and has horrid little flat roof to the rear. This RSJ is about 12/13ft long. By cutting holes in 2 bedrooms I have I think worked out the cross section, see below. From previous investigations of the flat roof, I am pretty sure that the wall at points "A" is not so good, and likely not sealed completely, but I dont have pictures of this. The void between the I beam and the Joist is quite a big and awkward area. All I can think of is to get some of the more expanding, expanding foam and try to seal this void at each end and perhaps in the middle (prior to checking over the suspect wall at a more suitable time). It is not easy to get access to the whole length of the RSJ (although possible I guess). Oh and also try to seal the gap along the botom of the skirting "B". And there is a 5mm gap under the RSJ to the lounge ceiling. I think I could only seal that from the flat roof side
      DSCF5192.jpg
   
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