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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.

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    • CommentAuthortregay
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2008
     
    We are renovating a very old farmhouse. It is not listed. Most of the walls are around 20" thick or thicker, made of stone (brown slate) with cob or lime mortar. It is not rendered externally (although the walls have been painted in places with what looks like an unbreathable paint.) Various other bodged and unsypathetic works have been carried out on the house over the decades eg UPvc windows which have failed & hardboard/fibre board drylining. In one section of the house we want to gut the house internally, remove the drylining and existing fibreboard partition walls and re-configure the room layouts (we have checked and do not need PP). We would like to go back to the stonework internally and bag-lime plaster the walls so that we max interal room dimensions and can see the shape of the stonework. Our architect is telling us, under the building regs, we have to insulate internally by drylining. Excuse my ignorance but is this true? It seems to me that this would compromise the character of the property and that the walls I would end up with, would look the same of those in a 70s semi which is not what I wanted. And on theses forums and elsewhere I have seen reference to research into 'the thermal mass of solid stone or brick walls, which stabilises internal temperatures and can make buildings more energy-efficient than they might seem'. Is there anyone, please, who could point me to such research so that I can bring it to the attention of the architect/building control?
    • CommentAuthorMike George
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2008 edited
     
    Hi tregay. I have done some research in this area. It was originally published in GBM1 http://www.buildingforafuture.co.uk/summer07/index.php and also in the latest Green Building Bible Vol 2.

    Your Architect is right in that Building Regs now cover this kind of work. There is a choice however in how the walls are insulated, this could be cavity fill; internal of external. It seems he is offering you the only solution in your case.

    I am currently involved with a very similar project and I am recommending internal insulation as it is the only option available.

    The thermal mass argument does not unfortuantely matter in terms of calculated u-values, which does not take their heat retention/ time lag to account. U-values are probably the only thing Building Control will be interested in - sorry

    I suppose BC may relax the u-value requirement [0.35W/mK]if you went for something like hemcrete, though I suspect it would need to be very thick and also comparatively expensive to laminated PUR boards
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2008
     
    Could you insulate externally? what is the existing wall finish?
  1.  
    As a builder now working in Cumbria, I come across this problem regularly. I agree with all of the comments above however, the only compromise that I am aware of from BC is that they may allow some quoining to be exposed. maybe around windows. Not on one of my contracts I would add, just hear-say.

    Another method is spray on insulated plaster that if applied simpathetically, will follow the contours of the stone to some extent. I haven't used this but it is a possibility.

    I recently completed a small barn conversion and the minimum I was able to use was K17 50mm insulated plasterboard. The client wanted to keep as much character as possible so we ended up following the contours where possible with smaller cuts and shapes! curves/flow was created with bonding and finally two coats of skim. Results were effective but a lot of work.
    • CommentAuthortregay
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2008
     
    Thanks to all for taking the time to comment. Its so depressing that an arbitrary measure that seems to be based on bad science means that gradually all our old building stock is going to be turned into featureless rectangular boxes. I wonder if we should apply to be listed...

    Tony - the external walls are stone with lime mortar – no render but some paint – but at least on the north wall, insulating externally would cover/spoil some important features. The east wall of the section being discussed is very thick stone but is itself an internal wall. The west wall is a party wall. The south and west walls are in not so good condition. Has anyone ever seen a mix & match approach accepted – eg exposing and lime bag rub finish/or spray insulating plaster on the north and east walls, and dry lining/insulation on the south and west walls?

    Also does anyone have any experience of using an independent building control inspector rather than the local authority BCO?
  2.  
    They would have to accept a mix and match approach. It is the u-value which is immportant for compliance, and can be achieved whether the insulation is on the inner or outer face of the wall.

    I agree with Tony that external would be best on all walls if possible, but mix and match is better than not doing it at all
    • CommentAuthortregay
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2008
     
    Mike - effectively with what I am suggesting, only 2 of the walls would end up insulated. The other 2 - one external and one internal - would be uninsulated stone, although maybe they could have a coat of Hemcrete if it would preserve the contours.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2008
     
    internal walls dont need to be insulated generally
  3.  
    Yes, you only need to do walls between you and the outside air. Not between you and next door or any other internal wall.

    Also, it may be worth you looking at the detail in Part L1b http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADL1B_2006.pdf

    Page 7 para 4a on
    • CommentAuthorRoger
    • CommentTimeAug 11th 2008
     
    My conversion is being done via Building Notice with building control, and also via an approved inspector as a condition on my mortgage. Both have been happy for me to leave ground floor (almost a half cellar) walls uninsulated externally or internally as I want the random stone, lime mortar walls to breath, and not store up trouble behind any membranes. Their solution is simply not to sign off that aspect of the work. You might be able to increase the thermal performance of other parts of the building in lieu.
    • CommentAuthorDdraigGoch
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2008
     
    I appear to have found a rather odd way of approaching the Building Regs issue. My BR officer said that it was only the carbon output/heat loss in the end that was being measured .... so I volunteered to get my carbon count down and run heating and cooking on wood, and they appear to have agreed to go with that.

    I hope that helps someone in some way.
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