Green Building Forum - Windows in bedrooms.

Windows in bedrooms.

gustyturbine — Tue, 27 Jun 2023 12:01:09 +0100

Hi all, I have recently been successful with planning but we did need to lower the buildings overall height. This now means that we have wrap around windows in the bedrooms to basically a vertical window with a Velux type window linked above following the roof profile. So, my question is this. 3g or 2g in the Velux section due to rain and hail noise during the night? If I can afford it I'd go 3g throughout but is that wise on the west coast of Wales? I'm currently considering Velfac and Rationel. Does anyone have other suggestions for quality suppliers that can provide good colour ranges these days.
Thanks all for any guidance.

Windows in bedrooms.

tony — Wed, 28 Jun 2023 07:56:30 +0100

Noise can be a problem with roof windows, mainly on the flashings.

I am keen on 3g

You may have to live with some noise - air tightness is crucial in keeping noise out

Windows in bedrooms.

Simon Still — Wed, 28 Jun 2023 11:19:58 +0100

Posted By: tonyNoise can be a problem with roof windows, mainly on the flashings.

I don't think it's the flashings that are the issue - we've got a lot of roof glass and even with 3g it's quite noisy when it's raining. Velux the same.

Windows in bedrooms.

cjard — Sun, 02 Jul 2023 07:16:58 +0100

I've got 8sqm of DG in my bedroom roof; I get woken by rain a few times a year but for the most part you get used to it

Windows in bedrooms.

Jeff B — Mon, 03 Jul 2023 10:42:42 +0100

Sorry I can't be of much comfort! Safe to say I would never buy another house with Velux windows simply because of the rain noise issue. If you are going to have a dormer then have proper dormer windows as in photo!

Yes there will be insulation issues but these are not insurmountable.

Windows in bedrooms.

djh — Mon, 03 Jul 2023 11:11:26 +0100

Posted By: cjardI get woken by rain a few times a year but for the most part you get used to it

It's definitely a learned thing. My wife tends to go to sleep when she hears heavy rain; it reminds her of the monsoon from her childhood.

Windows in bedrooms.

Jonti — Mon, 03 Jul 2023 22:09:17 +0100

I have two skylights in the bedroom of my croft house and never have a problem getting off to sleep. I guess as djh suggests, its a learned thing.

Windows in bedrooms.

gustyturbine — Tue, 04 Jul 2023 14:06:52 +0100

Thank you all.

Windows in bedrooms.

WillInAberdeen — Tue, 04 Jul 2023 15:42:44 +0100

Can you do something like this?

Windows in bedrooms.

fostertom — Tue, 04 Jul 2023 18:19:04 +0100

All such look horribly wrong to me - far too much fascia on a small-scale element. Traditionally like this ...
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6e/07/39/6e0739ccc9825f26889a2a31b76bed74.jpg
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/E0MM0J/old-dormer-windows-and-tiled-roof-on-cotswold-cottage-in-snowshill-E0MM0J.jpg
https://s1.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/03/36/52/3365201_24fbb8c5_800x800.jpg

Windows in bedrooms.

WillInAberdeen — Tue, 04 Jul 2023 18:28:38 +0100

Yes I do prefer those, I didn't search far enough for a nice photo.

Gusty mentioned the windows have to start below eaves level and continue up above eaves level, envisaged as some kind of wrap around velux. But maybe would look/work better/quieter as a single window that projects up across the eaves line into a mini dormer like the pic I pasted, breaking the line of the gutter. Is there a name for that?

Windows in bedrooms.

fostertom — Tue, 04 Jul 2023 22:59:49 +0100

nice ones - I expect there's a name but not common in my region(s)!

Windows in bedrooms.

Jeff B — Tue, 04 Jul 2023 23:05:46 +0100

I should have added that we endure a massive solar heat gain with our Velux windows in the afternoons even though they are north-west facing. Admittedly they are very large - three are approx 1400 x 1400mm and one at 1400 x 600mm.The bedrooms reached 30C in the recent hot weather. Thankfully we live in a windy location so opening the windows plus another one which is on the opposite side of the roof creates a through draught which helps to cool the place down, otherwise trying to sleep in such heat would be a problem.

I didn't measure the temperature of the glass but it was really hot to the touch whereas the skeilings were just "warm" (there is 75mm of Celotex insulation as IWI on them).

Windows in bedrooms.

fostertom — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 07:17:21 +0100

Are you aware of the integrated, easily deployable/retractable external solar blinds available for (current) Velux sizes? They can even be automated depending on solar intensity.

Temp of skeilings - even 'warm' is surprising, with such half-decent insulation. I've met this on a current job, listed building. On reflection, the out-to-in temperature gradient, from sun beating on the tiles/slates, is far greater than the winter in-to-out gradient, which is what we size our insulation thicknesses/expectations on. The solution, I think, after good advice and thoughts received on GBF, is not just more insulation, but a) real airtightness, to prevent the powerful convective drive of warm air through the slightest crack, and b) cooling the tiles/slates by a strong and unimpeded air passage up behind, from eave to ridge.

Windows in bedrooms.

gustyturbine — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 10:11:28 +0100

Hi all, thanks for the comments. I've tried to attached snips from my plans so let's see if this works

Windows in bedrooms.

gustyturbine — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 10:12:44 +0100

and front elevation to give more of an idea. This is mirrored on the rear elevation.

Windows in bedrooms.

gustyturbine — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 10:14:48 +0100

You can see that the lower section is a normal window and the upper section follows the roof profile. TBH I'm not a huge dormer window fan and prefer a more modern look. Personal taste I guess. Thanks again all.

Windows in bedrooms.

gustyturbine — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 10:16:25 +0100

Posted By: fostertomAre you aware of the integrated, easily deployable/retractable external solar blinds available for (current) Velux sizes? They can even be automated depending on solar intensity.

Temp of skeilings - even 'warm' is surprising, with such half-decent insulation. I've met this on a current job, listed building. On reflection, the out-to-in temperature gradient, from sun beating on the tiles/slates, is far greater than the winter in-to-out gradient, which is what we size our insulation thicknesses/expectations on. The solution, I think, after good advice and thoughts received on GBF, is not just more insulation, but a) real airtightness, to prevent the powerful convective drive of warm air through the slightest crack, and b) cooling the tiles/slates by a strong and unimpeded air passage up behind, from eave to ridge.

Thanks Fostertom - we are also looking at this.

Windows in bedrooms.

Jeff B — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 11:04:53 +0100

Posted By: fostertomAre you aware of the integrated, easily deployable/retractable external solar blinds available for (current) Velux sizes? They can even be automated depending on solar intensity.

Temp of skeilings - even 'warm' is surprising, with such half-decent insulation. I've met this on a current job, listed building. On reflection, the out-to-in temperature gradient, from sun beating on the tiles/slates, is far greater than the winter in-to-out gradient, which is what we size our insulation thicknesses/expectations on. The solution, I think, after good advice and thoughts received on GBF, is not just more insulation, but a) real airtightness, to prevent the powerful convective drive of warm air through the slightest crack, and b) cooling the tiles/slates by a strong and unimpeded air passage up behind, from eave to ridge.

Tom â€“ thanks for your response. Apologies to Gusty Turbine for hijacking his thread BTW!

Yes I was recently made aware of the possibility of external solar blinds but knowing Velux prices I have been a bit too scared to investigate further! Maybe I should at least enquire I suppose. I see they do a manually operated system that can be fitted from inside which presumably would be a cheaper option and one that I could fit myself.

When the weather warms up a bit towards the end of this week I will take some actual temperature measurements with my IR thermometer. Regarding air tightness all I can say is that we have done the best we can with the IWI. The fascia boards on the bungalow are the continuously slotted ventilation type and there is plenty of ventilation into the spaces behind the dwarf walls and up behind the skeiling plasterboards. I know because I can feel the cold draughts during the winter months if I dare to venture into that space! There are 50mm Celotex sheets between the rafters behind the skeiling boards but the builder has left a 50mm space between the Celotex and the roofing felt, so all good there.

Windows in bedrooms.

djh — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 11:06:05 +0100

How is the window marked 'Emergency Escape' going to work? Won't lots of small panes cause a problem?

Windows in bedrooms.

gustyturbine — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 12:24:06 +0100

Posted By: djhHow is the window marked 'Emergency Escape' going to work? Won't lots of small panes cause a problem?

Google tells me that escape windows need to have an opening of 450mm by 450mm minimum. These are 800x900 approx. Plenty of room. we also need the sprinklers here now. Enough said about that the better. Thanks.

Windows in bedrooms.

djh — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 15:24:27 +0100

Posted By: gustyturbineGoogle tells me that escape windows need to have an opening of 450mm by 450mm minimum.

Google also tells you that they need to have a minimum area of 0.33 mÂ²! But an 800x900 pane is big enough. I hope you've done an overheating calculation.

Windows in bedrooms.

WillInAberdeen — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 16:23:34 +0100

As mentioned on a previous thread, it's good to use the top-hung veluxes in the sloping bit of ceiling, and make sure that the hinge is above your head height. Then you can open all the veluxes and stand underneath them like a balcony.

If you use the centre-pivot ones, the top of the window swings down into the room, and you (I) keep bashing your (my) head on it.

Windows in bedrooms.

fostertom — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 17:26:09 +0100

Posted By: WillInAberdeenThen you can open all the veluxes and stand underneath them like a balcony

Yes, it's lovely because you have open air to front and both sides; the lowest edge may be at shin or thigh level - feels 'free' - and a bit dangerous!

Windows in bedrooms.

WillInAberdeen — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 17:50:41 +0100

Think building regs require the bottom edge of the window is a particular height (at least they do in Scotland) - high enough that you can't fall out, low enough to escape through...!

Windows in bedrooms.

Jeff B — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 18:07:05 +0100

With the Velux windows closed today the room temperature reached 27C by 5.30pm. The dwarf walls and skeilings were at 27C and the temperature towards the top of the Velux windows was 46C. Clearly the Velux windows are the main source of heat input.

I then opened the windows to create a through draught and will monitor the effect over time this evening.

Windows in bedrooms.

revor — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 19:20:29 +0100

Posted By: WillInAberdeenIf you use the centre-pivot ones, the top of the window swings down into the room, and you (I) keep bashing your (my) head on it.

If a velux window is means of escape it will need to be top hung anyway.

Windows in bedrooms.

WillInAberdeen — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 19:45:04 +0100

That's interesting, in Scotland that is not required, so long as the clear opening area below the pivot is the size mentioned a few posts above. Only one pane per room has to be an escape window.

Just checked and the bottom edge of the escape window should be between 800 and 1100mm above the floor (or a guardrail fitted, if lower).

What's the rules in Wales?

Windows in bedrooms.

Doubting_Thomas — Fri, 07 Jul 2023 13:21:53 +0100

Posted By: gustyturbineDoes anyone have other suggestions for quality suppliers that can provide good colour ranges these days.

This thread has moved on a bit, but have you looked at Internorm? Pricy but well built and they do tilt-turn 3G. Not sure about rooflights though.

Green Building Store also get some plaudits for their 'Progression' windows, but I have no experience of them myself.

Windows in bedrooms.

gustyturbine — Mon, 10 Jul 2023 07:46:09 +0100

Thank you Doubting-Thomas. I have quote requests in with both. I'll update in due course.