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Housing - New Build: timber cantilever joint

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      CommentAuthorDaren
    • CommentTimeApr 19th 2014
     
    Why aren't the architects resolving this detail?

    After all, they drew it!

    Thanks Tom. It's not helpful with things aren't labelled correctly. I would certainly go with the concealed fixings mentioned earlier.

    Speak to Simson Strong Tie.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 19th 2014
     
    Posted By: tonyI am wondering if the curvature that we are talking about id in the vertical or horizontal plane?
    vertical - it's an 'arched' roof
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 19th 2014
     
    Daren, that's a gd site, gd products
    •  
      CommentAuthorDaren
    • CommentTimeApr 19th 2014
     
    Tom - Yep, we specify them all of time.

    I think the issue with this sort of problem, is that not all engineers understand timber, and the opportunities. They think steel first!
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeApr 19th 2014
     
    Posted By: fostertomI see the wall has 'curved plywood cap'. How are the 2 wallplates curved, immediately below it?

    Don't know; good question. I'll find out.

    What is C20//65 joist hanger fixed to? A stud? What does jt support? - a 450 deep web beam as purlin spanning between gables? If so, what's the curved glulam for? - seems just a hefty decorative fascia which gets in the way of running at least the top flange of the web beam on out as verge sprocket.

    The G20/65 joist hanger is fixed to studs by the look of it. I need to check exactly what is proposed there. But what they're supporting are 150 deep purlin/noggins that the ceiling is fixed to; nothing of major structural significance.

    There's a choice between having a curved fascia beam/board and separate sprockets outboard, which is what we have here, or having longer sprockets anchored inboard and then cutting and detailing the curved fascia as separate noggins in between the sprockets. The first seemed more attractive. The second will be awkward to make the curve look smooth.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeApr 19th 2014
     
    Posted By: DarenWhy aren't the architects resolving this detail?

    After all, they drew it!

    Because they're not engineers? In any case, I'm the type of person that likes to understand what the possibilities are so I can assess the solutions that are offered to me.

    Speak to Simson Strong Tie.

    Looking at that BTALU connector as an example, I see a single load number, presumably for shear. What about torque? Are there connectors designed for this situation, with published numbers? And indeed, how are the appropriate load numbers calculated? And are the loads actually large enough to justify this type of connector or is something simpler more appropriate?

    Posted By: DarenI think the issue with this sort of problem, is that not all engineers understand timber, and the opportunities. They think steel first!

    Indeed and engineers have a tendency to over-engineer things. (I'm a different type of engineer and I know I do it myself :smile: )
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 19th 2014
     
    Ah so it's a 150 purlin-like ceiling joist on hangers, then 150 gap then purlin-like 150 roof joist sitting on the wall plates.

    The latter cd just cantilever out as verge sprockets, omit the curved glulam, run the render up to u/s of ply and around the sprockets - no fascia at top of wall. Or does the glulam do something important at the eaves?
    •  
      CommentAuthorDaren
    • CommentTimeApr 19th 2014
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: djh</cite>Because they're not engineers? In any case, I'm the type of person that likes to understand what the possibilities are so I can assess the solutions that are offered to me.</blockquote>

    Likewise. I don't have any issues with clients wanting to understand things (assuming that the architects are designing for you). But, they should understand the basics of how this is to be done, and when/if the s/e doesn't know, then find another engineer.
    The firm who resolved it for us are based in south wales. Timber techs.

    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: fostertom</cite>The latter cd just cantilever out as verge sprockets, omit the curved glulam, run the render up to u/s of ply and around the sprockets - no fascia at top of wall. Or does the glulam do something important at the eaves?</blockquote>

    I'd go with this
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeApr 19th 2014
     
    Posted By: fostertomThe latter cd just cantilever out as verge sprockets, omit the curved glulam, run the render up to u/s of ply and around the sprockets - no fascia at top of wall. Or does the glulam do something important at the eaves?

    Interesting idea. I guess the glulam provides some support to the ply and keeps it in the correct curved shape all the way to the edge, but I'll ask.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2014
     
    FWIW, I thought I'd give an update with the current plan. We'll extend every other purlin/joist to form a sprocket at the verge, fit sections of the curved glulam as noggins in between and finally fit some dummy sprockets in the gaps between the real ones. The curved glulam has a function at the corner where the verge meets the eaves.

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