Tue, 19 Dec 2023 06:44:37 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=288080#Comment_288080 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=288080#Comment_288080 Sun, 14 Mar 2021 08:48:11 +0000 Jonti http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=288125#Comment_288125 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=288125#Comment_288125 Mon, 15 Mar 2021 20:24:39 +0000 jms452 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=288135#Comment_288135 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=288135#Comment_288135 Tue, 16 Mar 2021 12:02:14 +0000 Peter_in_Hungary Posted By: jms452They left more wiggle room than that 8m40s - The homebuilders federation said of NDAs 'They are not widely used...' '... some times at the request of the customer'
Plausible deniability.....]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=288190#Comment_288190 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=288190#Comment_288190 Wed, 17 Mar 2021 20:17:57 +0000 Rex
Although not designed as a passive t/f house, I was very anal about taping every joint where cold air could sneak in. My air pressure test based upon the pre-build assessment was 9 whatevers per hour. The test gave a 1.7 reading so I was pleased.

The thermal camera did not show any major issues. But, the camera is so sensitive, with a display between cold (blue) to red (warm) based upon only a few degrees temp difference, it is easy to become paranoid based upon the thermal colour when the reality is almost insignificant. But of course, the quality of a new build developer house is a different issue.

Some of my worst area were the timber frame of the skylights, which were 3 degrees cooler than the surrounding plasterboard ceiling. Likewise, areas immediately adjacent to doors.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=288191#Comment_288191 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=288191#Comment_288191 Wed, 17 Mar 2021 20:27:37 +0000 jms452 Posted By: Rexthe camera is so sensitive, with a display between cold (blue) to red (warm) based upon only a few degrees temp difference, it is easy to become paranoid based upon the thermal colour when the reality is almost insignificant. But of course, the quality of a new build developer house is a different issue.

Seeing the subtleties is interesting but when you're looking for 'stuff worth fixing' in retrofit find the bad areas, lock the scale and use this to resurvey. Put's it all nicely into perspective.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=288195#Comment_288195 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=288195#Comment_288195 Wed, 17 Mar 2021 22:21:46 +0000 djh Posted By: RexSome of my worst area were the timber frame of the skylights, which were 3 degrees cooler than the surrounding plasterboard ceiling. Likewise, areas immediately adjacent to doors.
Depends what the temperature of the plasterboard was of course, compared to the room

IIRC the PH standard says that the coldest point on a window must be 17°C or warmer, assuming the room is at 20°C. Not sure whether that 'says' is a 'requires' or a 'guarantees', but anyway, it's a 3°C difference. ]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=288735#Comment_288735 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=288735#Comment_288735 Tue, 06 Apr 2021 23:12:26 +0100 Newbuild
I think the basic geometry was the wrong scale and evidence was missing to substantiate the heat loss of significant thermal elements.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=289703#Comment_289703 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=289703#Comment_289703 Sat, 22 May 2021 15:55:52 +0100 wholaa do you think moving the windows to sit on the cavity closers could be finally justified in these new builds? I guess they are brick and external insulation isn't viable.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=289722#Comment_289722 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=289722#Comment_289722 Sun, 23 May 2021 16:28:10 +0100 Newbuild
To my understanding, ACD are claimed for some of these junctions; and even after EPC audit where the lintel was defaulted.

The outer leaf of the building in some places is brick and in others a concrete artstone type block so external insulation most likely not suitable.

Insulating the reveals themselves would also put skirtings over glazing etc and I have not done the calculation to work out what thickness would be needed to change the dew point of the junction.

The last update I have is that the warranty provider are now involved and that it was quite hard to communicate the fault to them; so who knows what will be determined.

I would think that it's entirely possible to set the frames back as required, it would need some minor internal works to facilitate. Possibly new deeper uPVC sills if the current ones can't accomdate a 30mm change and there is only one stone artstone sil that might need moving.

Any advice or guidance would be appreciated - the overall feeling is that very few invovled actually understand what's going on.

But on a upside; the window subcontractors workforce now do check the window setbacks specifically for this and query it on other sites - where previously they did not. So there has been some "greater good!" Achieved!]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=289724#Comment_289724 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=289724#Comment_289724 Sun, 23 May 2021 17:26:09 +0100 Newbuild http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=289729#Comment_289729 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=289729#Comment_289729 Sun, 23 May 2021 20:02:04 +0100 djh http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=289731#Comment_289731 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=289731#Comment_289731 Sun, 23 May 2021 21:54:22 +0100 tony
Clearly draughts can get behind the lining making the cavity closer pointless]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=289794#Comment_289794 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=289794#Comment_289794 Fri, 28 May 2021 22:56:42 +0100 Newbuild
"Our records show cavity closers are correctly fitted and within suitable tolerance. There does not appear to be thermal defect at this location. "

]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=289795#Comment_289795 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=289795#Comment_289795 Sat, 29 May 2021 06:59:50 +0100 tony http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=289796#Comment_289796 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=289796#Comment_289796 Sat, 29 May 2021 07:22:58 +0100 Peter_in_Hungary Posted By: NewbuildThe warranty provider have said:

"Our records show cavity closers are correctly fitted and within suitable tolerance. There does not appear to be thermal defect at this location. "

http:///newforum/extensions/Vanillacons/smilies/standard/bigsmile.gif" alt="" title="" >
Then of course there is the as planned / designed and as built / installed and the typical gulf between the two.
Ask to see the actual records and the signed inspection along with the installation standards so that you can assess whether the work was done as specified.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=290134#Comment_290134 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=290134#Comment_290134 Sun, 20 Jun 2021 12:52:13 +0100 Newbuild
They have also determined there is no way they can assist as "the cavity closers are not damaged".]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=290136#Comment_290136 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=290136#Comment_290136 Sun, 20 Jun 2021 13:14:39 +0100 tony http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=290137#Comment_290137 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=290137#Comment_290137 Sun, 20 Jun 2021 14:38:31 +0100 Peter_in_Hungary http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=290142#Comment_290142 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=290142#Comment_290142 Sun, 20 Jun 2021 20:22:40 +0100 djh http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=290146#Comment_290146 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=290146#Comment_290146 Mon, 21 Jun 2021 06:40:44 +0100 Peter_in_Hungary Posted By: djhAre the cavity closers actually the problem? I'm still confused as to what the problem is.
The problem is poor (out of spec) thermal performance caused by incorrect construction. Surely it is not up to the claimant to determine the actual cause because they are not qualified to do so, just the same as if you take your car to the garage because e.g. it won't start, you don't tell them what the problem is, you describe the symptoms. Same here, the problem is bad thermal performance - it is up to who ever has the liability to fix it to find the problem and make the repair.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=290150#Comment_290150 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=290150#Comment_290150 Mon, 21 Jun 2021 12:01:50 +0100 djh Posted By: Peter_in_HungaryThe problem is poor (out of spec) thermal performance caused by incorrect construction. Surely it is not up to the claimant to determine the actual cause because they are not qualified to do so
Agreed but that's my point. The warranty provider is talking about cavity closer installation, but if that isn't the specific instance of 'incorrect construction' that is causing the trouble then no amount of getting records and specs is going to cause them to change their minds. So, again, what is the cause of the problem? Are we clear?

And yes, in an ideal world, there would be a third-party test of thermal performance that was able to verify the existence of a problem and the contractual terms would oblige the builder or warranty provider to correct the problem so the third-party could verify that the problem had been fixed. And it would all be paid for by the builder or warranty provider or insurance company with no additional effort or cash from the householder.

And ideally pigs would fly. (although that brings some unfortunate images to mind )

The reality is likely to be that the householder will need a suitably qualified surveyor to gather third-party evidence in a form that can be used by a suitably qualified lawyer to discover if the builder can be held liable and if so to then enforce that liability. All at the householder's expense unless the lawyer can persuade the builder et al to reimburse the costs.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=290152#Comment_290152 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=290152#Comment_290152 Mon, 21 Jun 2021 18:51:37 +0100 Rex
One site was bought from a developer, who obtained planning and sold the site ready to be demolished. I was fascinated watching it being built. Really poor detailing of the insulation; the roof insulation just roughly fitted in place on the basis that when the plasterboard is fixed, no-one will see how poorly installed it is.

And I just love it when it snows. My west facing roof remains snow covered for days; their west facing roof and the snow has gone within hours.

No need for a thermal camera to see how bad it is. But as a city banker, he probably does not know nor even care.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=291869#Comment_291869 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=291869#Comment_291869 Thu, 23 Sep 2021 21:41:42 +0100 Newbuild
Waiting for the comming heating season.

Warranty provider have denied all requests to do with thermal defects so far. But they did send a surveyor who promptly took some thermal images on a mobile phone, whilst the house had been ventilated all day (window doors open) for covid with the heating off. So unsurprisingly his images showed no issues... As surprise, surprise the inside and outside were all the same temperature by that point.

Builder have said they had no obligation to build correct thermal details. Despite claiming various ACDs in the as built SAP and resulting EPC.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=293885#Comment_293885 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=293885#Comment_293885 Wed, 22 Dec 2021 19:31:44 +0000 wholaa https://imgur.com/a/y7sO0mW

Then what? Do you fill the insulation board-inner leaf gap, or is it futile?]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=293887#Comment_293887 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=293887#Comment_293887 Thu, 23 Dec 2021 10:16:12 +0000 philedge http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=293889#Comment_293889 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=293889#Comment_293889 Thu, 23 Dec 2021 11:09:34 +0000 djh Posted By: NewbuildBuilder have said they had no obligation to build correct thermal details.I don't think that's true. They have an obligation to comply with the building regs, including Part L. So it depends on whether the thermal details are necessary to comply. Alternatively it depends on whether they've held out the property as having properties that it doesn't, as in e.g. the EPC. But was the house bought on the basis of the EPC?]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=293892#Comment_293892 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16957&Focus=293892#Comment_293892 Thu, 23 Dec 2021 17:25:58 +0000 revor