Green Building Forum - Is Hinkley C dead? Tue, 19 Dec 2023 07:35:59 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Is Hinkley C dead? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14100&Focus=246100#Comment_246100 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14100&Focus=246100#Comment_246100 Mon, 22 Aug 2016 09:49:23 +0100 djh Is Hinkley C dead? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14100&Focus=246154#Comment_246154 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14100&Focus=246154#Comment_246154 Wed, 24 Aug 2016 17:51:45 +0100 John Daglish
Wind energy is a fuel $aver and constructing an energy system around variable or cycling (such as tidal lagoon) renewables is not an insurmountable problem as indicated by many reports from all around the world and as in the recent Royal Academy of Engineering report ;
http://www.raeng.org.uk/news/releases/shownews.htm?NewsID=925

High renewable scenarios from around the world
http://www.mng.org.uk/gh/scenarios.htm

Denmark Smart Energy Systems: 100% Renewable Energy by 2050 (video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1P31EC0YsE
tech presentation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-sDkrZmrUA

Renewables, nuclear, or fossil fuels? Scenarios for Great Britain’s power system considering costs, emissions and energy security Imperial College Pfenninger & Keirstead
http://blog.environmentalresearchweb.org/2015/07/25/uk-renewables-can-get-to-80-or-more/

The Fraunhofer 2050 REMod-D high renewables model shows no cost penalty.
https://workspace.imperial.ac.uk/climatechange/Public/pdfs/presentations/solar%202050/Solar-2050_2014-01_Henning.pdf

The only problem are existing vested interests, supine politicians and poorly briefed journalists. The grid needs restructuring for the coming renewable energy revolution. We certainly do not need over complicated, high cost, inflexible and high risk nuclear. In fact current nuclear proposals will block investment in renewables after 2020, locking the UK into the high cost nuclear cycle.

When you have variable renewable, base load generation is redundant, you need quick reacting infill such as already existing gas fired CCGT Combined Cycle Gas Turbine and OCT Open Cycle gas Turbine (perhaps fuel cells in the future if they scale). We will need this anyway when a nuclear has a unintended shutdown. This will be relatively low cost with occasional use (give them capacity payments if need or just let the state buy them cheap) and well below C02 emission targets. The ramp up and down rates are similar to existing rates and extra maintenance costs are minimal.

With some CO2 capture and use of biomass + coal you can even have low to neutral CO2 emissions. BECCS biogenic carbon capture and storage (and use). CO2 then has an economic value.
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmselect/cmenergy/529/529we10.htm
http://decarbonizingfires.com/Heating%20Gas%20-%20Carbon-neutral%20Heating%20Gas.pdf

Base load is redundant (and puts the fear of God into the big 6)
www.energyscience.org.au/BP16%20BaseLoad.pdf

First reduce demand with a roll out of energy efficiency.

Storing potential electrical energy is high cost with diminishing returns in round trip efficiency.

Better to use other storage vectors that are lower cost first in an energy systems approach, then use higher cost but valuable electrical storage with short to long term storage capacities and availabilities as needed eg District Heating (using MW heat pumps on HV grid with inter-seasonal low cost storage), pumped hydro electric, batteries, cryogenic heat engines, P2G renewable power to gas has lower efficiency so one of the last port of calls but it is easily and cheaply stored and can be used for long periods in great quantity, etc.

JRC District Heating report
http://setis.ec.europa.eu/system/files/JRCDistrictheatingandcooling.pdf

see 4th generation District Heating low temperature 60-50C supply/ 30-20 return with large area surface emitters eg wall or floor heating
www.4dh.dk

Lots of interesting new renewable developments in the pipeline
eg prototype osmotic power station using high saline geothermal district heating water in Denmark

https://stateofgreen.com/en/news/salt-power-to-produce-co2-neutral-electricity
https://issuu.com/saltpower/docs/saltpowerbrochure-4-2016

solar photovoltaic + batteries - perhaps but not good economies of scale or use of resources, congestion? More public transport and trams better eg Trampower www.trampower.co.uk]]> Is Hinkley C dead? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14100&Focus=246162#Comment_246162 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14100&Focus=246162#Comment_246162 Wed, 24 Aug 2016 19:26:34 +0100 Gotanewlife Is Hinkley C dead? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14100&Focus=246165#Comment_246165 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14100&Focus=246165#Comment_246165 Wed, 24 Aug 2016 19:46:29 +0100 ringi Posted By: John Daglishsolar photovoltaic + batteries - perhaps but not good economies of scale or use of resources,

Works well, but not for the UK! Great if you are somewhere with sun most of the year and a lot of AC load..]]> Is Hinkley C dead? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14100&Focus=246167#Comment_246167 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14100&Focus=246167#Comment_246167 Wed, 24 Aug 2016 20:51:13 +0100 Nick Parsons
Ed davies wrote:

''Posted By: ringi
believe that drying in the name of god''

drying up?

Are Nick and I the only ones who find Ringi's typos a source of humour? Or do others just not notice?''

Is this about praying that your washing dries before it rains?]]> Is Hinkley C dead? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14100&Focus=246579#Comment_246579 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14100&Focus=246579#Comment_246579 Sat, 03 Sep 2016 18:17:31 +0100 fostertom https://www.amazon.co.uk/Switch-solar-storage-means-cheap/dp/1781256357/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1472922777&sr=8-1&keywords=the+switch+chris+goodall
it had seemed Mrs M was alert to the new situation and it was all over for Hinkley.

Now not so sure - looks more like just a suspense tactic to bargain with China. UK may be the v last country to commit to the biggest ball-and-chain ever, just before everyone else sees sense.]]> Is Hinkley C dead? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14100&Focus=247071#Comment_247071 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14100&Focus=247071#Comment_247071 Thu, 15 Sep 2016 11:13:39 +0100 fostertom https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/sep/15/hinkley-point-c-nuclear-power-station-gets-go-ahead]]> Is Hinkley C dead? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14100&Focus=247075#Comment_247075 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14100&Focus=247075#Comment_247075 Thu, 15 Sep 2016 11:41:37 +0100 Peter_in_Hungary Is Hinkley C dead? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14100&Focus=247107#Comment_247107 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14100&Focus=247107#Comment_247107 Fri, 16 Sep 2016 08:55:16 +0100 fostertom https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2016/sep/15/steve-bell-on-hinkley-point-c-cartoon]]> Is Hinkley C dead? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14100&Focus=247115#Comment_247115 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14100&Focus=247115#Comment_247115 Fri, 16 Sep 2016 09:53:42 +0100 Gotanewlife
Her hands were tied, she won some concessions. I will not judge her.]]> Is Hinkley C dead? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14100&Focus=247125#Comment_247125 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14100&Focus=247125#Comment_247125 Fri, 16 Sep 2016 11:00:58 +0100 fostertom Posted By: Gotanewlifeit is the lesser of 2 evilsspell those out?]]> Is Hinkley C dead? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14100&Focus=247126#Comment_247126 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14100&Focus=247126#Comment_247126 Fri, 16 Sep 2016 11:14:56 +0100 Gotanewlife Posted By: fostertomspell those out?
Evil Choice 1: Hinkley C

Evil Choice 2:
Posted By: Gotanewlifenot have Chinese (specifically) but mega investment from other countries due to our unreliability etc

Yours perplexed?]]> Is Hinkley C dead? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14100&Focus=247129#Comment_247129 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14100&Focus=247129#Comment_247129 Fri, 16 Sep 2016 11:40:18 +0100 Ed Davies https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/15/the-guardian-view-on-hinkley-point-c-hard-choice-wrong-call]]> Is Hinkley C dead? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14100&Focus=247133#Comment_247133 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14100&Focus=247133#Comment_247133 Fri, 16 Sep 2016 13:09:14 +0100 atomicbisf
Talking of China and electricity generation, just been reading some reportage from China:-

Thermal (fossil fuel, basically coal) generation 96 TWh lower in 2015 than 2014, hydro 44 TWh up, solar 43 TWh up, nuclear 35 TWh up, wind 29 TWh up.

https://cleantechnica.com/2016/09/15/latest-trends-chinas-continuing-renewable-energy-revolution/

Ed]]> Is Hinkley C dead? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14100&Focus=249817#Comment_249817 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14100&Focus=249817#Comment_249817 Thu, 10 Nov 2016 20:28:06 +0000 Ed Davies http://www.ecowatch.com/france-nuclear-power-shut-down-2086414462.html

“A third of France's nuclear reactors have been shut down by industry regulators as revelations emerge about the supply of sub-standard parts.

As investigations into falsified documents and excess quantities of carbon in steel continue, more closures are expected. This is not yet a full-blown crisis for the nuclear industry, but it is putting serious strain on the finances of French nuclear giant EDF and causing electricity price rises across western Europe. …”]]> Is Hinkley C dead? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14100&Focus=249829#Comment_249829 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14100&Focus=249829#Comment_249829 Thu, 10 Nov 2016 23:07:13 +0000 SteamyTea There was also something about the Chinese and Hinkley.]]>