It's an interesting debate, something I like about his forum, Tony raises a query that sounds like from a bloke down the pub, and everyone provides references and people learn stuff - me as much as anyone - thank you.

Think Hobs will still be allowed, at least according to the BBC:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-47559920

It also mentions 2025, so perhaps there is something else coming that I missed?

You are also free to re-circulate gas hob fumes, so I assume no nasties in the fumes. Just my personal experience of both gas and induction hobs are that we rarely use the extractor now, when we had gas it was almost always on.

We are unfortunate in the UK to largely live in poorly design houses and the costs to address are often high. I don't yet have Aircon, but often consider it for a few weeks in the height of summer. I will be shielding my large patio windows with a project to build a pergola cum brise soleil, and will then make my mind up. It would only be on for a few weeks when the sun is strongest, so don;t think I should feel guilty.

Perhaps a change in insurance to allow claims against poor design for buildings - especially commercial, but all really, there could be more done to enforce good design so air con is not needed anywhere. if it cleans the CO2, though, maybe that needs to become mandatory?

Posted By: HollyBushThink Hobs will still be allowed, at least according to the BBC

To be fair, I think LF's point was that if there's no gas heating, then connecting gas just for a hob is a lot of expense and bother compared to simply wiring an electrical hob, so they'll die out through natural selection rather than by legislation. That's the same assessment I went through and I agree with it. We have a duct laid ready for gas, but never put a pipe in it. It's another standing charge apart from anything else.

Posted By: djh

Posted By: LFI use gas hob and would welcome advice showing it is dangerous or that I need to have an extractor fan on for me to use it. Extractor is used for the steam and smells from food rather than the heat and combustion products of cooking - so extractor is same for both. In modern world extractor should recover the heat anyway of the air being thrown away.

There are two combustion products from natural gas - the evil carbon dioxide and *water vapour* - so yes, you need more extraction with a gas hob. Our cooker hood is recirculating anyway but we only use it very rarely; the MVHR deals with cooking exhaust pretty well.
...

You are conveniently forgetting about nitrous oxide, or NOx, formed from nitrogen and oxygen gas in high-temperature processes such as gas hob flames or combustion engines. Very hot topic now (no pun intended) and proven to be not so very good for you.

Also SO2 but in small quantities , and very trace amounts of CO if you have spark ignition then some ozone is inevitable.

We have induction hob and love it, rarely use the extractor.

Posted By: mikaelIt has always been my understanding that air conditioning in cars actually saves energy in addition to being far quieter and much more comfortable. The extra energy needed to overcome drag caused by open windows is greater than the energy needed to drive the air conditioning compressor.

Not in slow-moving or stationary traffic. But when does that ever happen? ;-)

Posted By: mikaelA/C in cars is a complete no-brainer and anybody who suggests otherwise does not know what they are talking about.

Despite often not knowing what I'm talking about, I'm inclined to agree. I'd be sad to be without it, though I do wonder if car windows could - or do - have coatings to reduce solar gain, thus reducing the need to use aircon for cooling. I use it a lot in my Nissan Leaf, but for heating and demisting.

Posted By: mikael. A/C in cars is a complete no-brainer and anybody who suggests otherwise does not know what they are talking about.

Really? Current car had for 2 years has AC. Van before that had for 4 years, no AC. Car before that had for 6 years, had AC with no gas, so no AC. Cars before that including parents cars, no AC for 40+ years. I feel like I know what Im talking about

Dress for the weather, cut out the calories and vent fans are fine.

Car AC is a first world luxury for all but the frailest. Make no mistake, its great to have but is definitely a luxury

Posted By: LFBack to gas hob induction hob, I was reading a bit last night and backs up where discussion is at that from CO2 terms about the same.
...
Induction hob less heat into room. Electricity is uses is about 1.4 times the CO2 emissions compared to burning gas on the hob. This is made up by the induction hob needing less heat as it is more efficient at getting heat into the pan.

Carbon trust 2012 "The energy requirement of an induction hob is 15-50% less than that of a conventional gas or
electric hob.
...

It would be interesting to know where these figures come from. With the UK grid decarbonising rapidly it looks like gas will be the more carbon intensive option if it isn't already. A more serious side effect is that using a gas hob in summer can lead to discussions about air conditioning on green building forum - not saying it is all hot air!

Hello bhommels
Your comment
"It would be interesting to know where these figures come from. With the UK grid decarbonising rapidly it looks like gas will be the more carbon intensive option if it isn't already. A more serious side effect is that using a gas hob in summer can lead to discussions about air conditioning on green building forum - not saying it is all hot air!"

The gas hob was a debate about what should be banned as well as aircon, but it made me think and challenge my own views. I did not realise how efficient these electric induction hobs have become such as they are basically CO2 neutral with gas.

I like your twist about gas hobs in summer needing a bigger aircon load ... we should be outside cooking on something else or eating salads.

Where did the number come from ...
If you go further up the thread, I roughed out the 1.4 number for CO2 per kWh of electric or gas in the UK.
Based on generation of electricity from fossil fuels needing 2.5 times heat input to produce a unit of electricity and UK government figures on split or where our electricity comes from. That is why electricity is so expensive per unit of energy.

I would be surprised if the CO2 footprint of electricity keeps dropping at the rate it has in last decade because solar and wind are season and weather dependent,coal to gas is almost complete and nuclear is happening so slowly. I hope I am wrong. Where is the electricity going to come from if it is not gas for next few decades ? Or CO2 is captured from gas fired power stations. Or summer surplus solar and wind electricity is stored somehow to be released in winter ?

Just googled and this info seems to back up my calcs
They state "In 2018, these figures were 0.283 kg of CO2 per kWh of electricity and 0.184kg per kWh of gas"
This works out as 1.54 times more CO2 from electricity than using gas. So same ball park a bit higher than 1.4

https://bulb.co.uk/carbon-tracker/#:~:targetText=In%202018%2C%20these%20figures%20were,of%20CO2%20from%20gas%20usage.

Heat pumps use electricity very efficiently and will be the future of heat but on a cold windless day in winter there is likely to be CO2 released from gas generation to make the electricity for them.

The future should also not using lots of energy per day to heat inefficient houses but reducing the overall heat demand (electricity and gas demand) It is not using lots of air con in summer when proper design does away with the need.

Posted By: tonyProper design can and should also do away with the need for heating systems too

Could not agree more. Most people are focused on the supply part, where demand should be addressed instead

Posted By: tonyProper design can and should also do away with the need for heating systems too

I certainly agree that it can, however there can be site considerations that make that very difficult in practice - building orientation, site shape, shading, conservation requirements, etc...

Add the constraint 'cost effectively' to the list ...

We just replaced a gas hob with induction, both to avoid the fumes from gas, and in order to eventually be able to get rid of gas in our house.

They were both by Hotpoint (other makes are available!), and they looked very similar, although the induction was a bit more expensive. We chose the unit for the controls, which are manual dials on the front rather than touch buttons that I find frustrating.

I did a few experiments to compare the power of them, and the induction wins hands down. I tried boiling a large pan of water and timing it, to compare the maximum power. Then I tried a large empty pan on minimum power, and measured the temperature then pan got to. The induction hob states it has a min of 100W, and a max of 2000W, and I estimated the gas was around 200W-1000W depending on the dial setting. That restricted range matches my experience with the gas hob we had- it's nowhere near as fast, and it couldn't go low enough to simmer with the lid on without leaving it ajar, or moving the pan off the heat a bit.

The only odd thing was that the dog could hear it kick in! My multimeter claims it operates at 28kHz, nothing wrong with her hearing! All I can hear is a tick and a slight mains hum as power kicks in and out every 2 seconds of so, similar but quieter than a microwave at low power.

Efficiency apart; having switched to induction I wouldn't have anything else. The response time is amazing with good quality saucepans; the pan can go from almost boiling over, to nothing, in an instant,-- amazing.

Mmmmm.... we use the smallest IKEA pan, 120mm dia. and that's our regular work horse. We also have the two zone
IKEA induction hob so mangling the same metaphor, maybe it's horses for courses.

Posted By: marktimewe use the smallest IKEA pan, 120mm dia.

and mangling the same metaphor : why not just tell the lad to go out and get whatever he can find - then it will be sons's hob choice...

gg