Tue, 19 Dec 2023 05:31:17 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16277&Focus=276077#Comment_276077 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16277&Focus=276077#Comment_276077 Fri, 11 Oct 2019 00:32:12 +0100 tony
I said steer well clear, replace the lights at your expense and you fully benefit from the savings.

Replacement scheme is priced at 45k

Lights on average 5 hours a day six days a week

Cost benefit analysis is my job and I want to include additional cost for replacing the “saved energy” with an allowance to generate the saved electricity with gas heating during the heating season.


They pay 10.5 p per kWh for electric and 6.2 for gas

Saved electricity £15k Gas heat in winter = £3.5k >> savings = 11.5k

Four year payback, why hasn’t it been done already?


Please pick holes]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16277&Focus=276079#Comment_276079 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16277&Focus=276079#Comment_276079 Fri, 11 Oct 2019 08:19:49 +0100 Peter_in_Hungary Posted By: tonyFour year payback, why hasn’t it been done already?
Possibly because nobody realised the short time span of the ROI or they don't have the 45K up front to invest to make the savings.

With regard to the offer from the installers

Is the 45k replacement scheme at retail prices and presumably the installers are getting trade so + profit for the installers

For how long will the organisation have to pay for the 'saved energy' and who is responsible for maintenance during that period?

It sounds like the organisation could be leasing (?) the system. It obviously would need a proper contract but if the organisation don't have to upfront 45K and the contract can be negotiated with a reasonable fixed term then the scheme could have benefits.

Lots of questions arise on the contract - who defines the savings? do the calculated savings vary with the energy price? who chooses the supplier? etc.

IMO the scheme could work if the organisation don't have the upfront 45K and a decent contract could be sorted. It seems to tick the green environmental boxes.

Oh and any grants available for the organisation to do their own energy saving investment?]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16277&Focus=276080#Comment_276080 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16277&Focus=276080#Comment_276080 Fri, 11 Oct 2019 09:24:45 +0100 owlman http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16277&Focus=276082#Comment_276082 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16277&Focus=276082#Comment_276082 Fri, 11 Oct 2019 09:49:02 +0100 WillInAberdeen
£45k @ say 10% = £4.5k/year


Electric saved = 13kW X 5h X 6d X 52w X £0.105 = £2.1k
Extra gas = 13kW X 5h X 6d X 30w X £0.062 = £0.7k
Net saving = £2.1k-£0.7k = £1.4k per year
This is overoptimistic as new lights still use some electric

Doesn't pay back the capital :(

Presumably they pay VAT and corporation tax? The £45k could be useful as a tax loss up front, but their accountant would need to advise on this.

They will* also be paying to change blown lightbulbs, access is quite expensive if they are high up in the roof, modern lamps last longer and save labour costs.
(*If they lease the building, are they responsible for maintaining the lighting?)

45k sounds like a lot to change the lights, how many fittings are there?]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16277&Focus=276094#Comment_276094 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16277&Focus=276094#Comment_276094 Fri, 11 Oct 2019 17:17:31 +0100 GarethC http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16277&Focus=276095#Comment_276095 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16277&Focus=276095#Comment_276095 Fri, 11 Oct 2019 19:06:50 +0100 WillInAberdeen
But it's the opportunity cost that matters]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16277&Focus=276101#Comment_276101 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16277&Focus=276101#Comment_276101 Fri, 11 Oct 2019 20:56:46 +0100 djh Posted By: GarethCWhy would you use 10% cost of capital in this day and age Will? 5% would still seem conservative.
But even then the sums don't make sense.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16277&Focus=276104#Comment_276104 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16277&Focus=276104#Comment_276104 Fri, 11 Oct 2019 21:26:54 +0100 tony
How do they make it work?]]>