hi all im writing a dissertation on a comparison between early 1900's and early 2000's construction quality and design, I aim to do a case study on an early 1900's 2 bed mid terrace and a late 2000's 2 bed mid terrace as I want to confirm or dispell the much over used phrase of new buildings being "flimsy" with "paper thin walls" and not being built to last etc,

I wonder if you guys have any feelings on this and if you would be kind enough to share them with me and hopefully help me with areas of research.

So do you think that major developers speculative houses nowadays are built to bare minimum standards and cut costs wherevere possible with prefab parts and unskilled labour with little thought to how the house will be used or do you think that we have reached a peak (so far) in building standards with quality being assured, designed to last and suit the requirments of the occupants.

Do you think that victorian houses were thrown up with little regard to quality or safety (obviously energy wasnt considered) or that the cheapness and availability of quality materials coupled with highly skilled and motivated work force with cheap labour costs post 1900 meant that it was the pinacle of British housing quality and design.

Had we perfected the house at around 1900 after years of improvements. The modern day terrace often has a downstairs toilet, small kitchen and 1 comunal area for eating, entertaining, living etc. Whereas most terraces post 1900 had a separate diner and lounge - does this suit the needs of modern people better than its modern predecessor?

Do you find the original 'features' of victorian property charming or do you find them fussy and distracting. Do you find modern housing bland and souless?

do you prefer the areas that 1900 properties were widely constructed nicer and with better street plans or do you prefer the diversity of modern estates with various housing types and cul de sac's etc.

So are modern better or not? Have we achieved more than cavity walls, insulation and dpc's? Or is there much more than that? Why do some people prefer older terraces than new - despite no real difference in price.

Are our builders better now or were they much more skilled 100 years ago?


You thoughts greatefully received....

Not built like they used to be!

I can confirm that as I have a socalled luxury house in Scotland
5 large double bedroom/ jacuzzi

build quality

roof built wrong and not to design and poor qqulaity workmanship-installed by non-qualified carpenters.
boiler under sized.
hot water cylinder designed for a 3 bedroomed house to suit the under sized boiler.
insulation - poor qulaity

and that is not just my house

dandyclub - sorry I can't give your post the attention it deserves as I don't have the time but I thought I'd throw in a penn'orth.

I was speaking to a colleague in the lift. She's renting a new flat at the Emirates Stadium Arsenal. It was 9C this am. She says she does't have the heating on and has never had the heating on ever and she's been there over a year.

She moved from an ex-GLC (1940s built?) council flat. She said there she could never get warm, there was mould everywhere and she spent a fortune on laundrette tumble drying because it was pointless putting it out to dry in the winter, cos it never did.

She's 22 - and a firm advocate of insulation!

A lot has happened in 100 years...

Houses gained cavity walls
We had two world wars and both had an effect on the quality of houses
The introduction of softwood timber frame (problems and solutions).
The introduction of the Building Regulations and the Planning system.
An energy crisis and attempts to improve insulation.
Global warming and attempts to improve insulation.
Cement blocks introduced.
The growth of large building firms and an increase in the use of factory assembly (roof trusses) and standardisation.
Even the bricks we use have changed with many being imported from abroad.
We still get shrinkage cracks where ceilings meet walls (why hasn't that been designed out).

No sure all those are in the right order.

Design may have changed but I don't think build quality has.

Posted By: Paul in Montreal

Posted By: CWattersWe still get shrinkage cracks where ceilings meet walls (why hasn't that been designed out).

We don't get those here as we use cornerbeads or tapes that are plastered over. And any painter that I know that's worth their salt also caulks all those 90^ojoints with flexible and paintable latex caulking for extra protection against such cracks.

What seems to happen here is that the ceiling shrinks and pulls the plaster off the wall. It's quite common to find the crack two inches down from the ceiling.

Some sort of tape applied to the ceiling before the walls are plastered sounds ideal. Could save lots of work for self builders a year or two after moving in.

Dont know much about the circumstances surrounding building in the early 1900's, but modern building is dominated by a few large companies who seem to be focused on profit only. They build to absolute minimum requirements, even in the face of all we have learned over the last 100 years about how buildings work not to mention the climate change threat and energy resource depletion. It is largely these companies boardroom decisions that have lead to the decline of the trades as they have dictated how things are to be done.
To add insult to injury they are allowed to get away with it.

Posted By: TerryDont know much about the circumstances surrounding building in the early 1900's, but modern building is dominated by a few large companies who seem to be focused on profit only. They build to absolute minimum requirements, even in the face of all we have learned over the last 100 years about how buildings work not to mention the climate change threat and energy resource depletion. It is largely these companies boardroom decisions that have lead to the decline of the trades as they have dictated how things are to be done.
To add insult to injury they are allowed to get away with it.

I once read/heard a comment by one of the head honchos of one of the big "building" companies in the UK in response to another comment about them being in the construction industry. He was clear that their business wasn't about building houses, it was about selling houses. Building them was one of the things they had to do to enable their real business. With this mindset, it's no surprise that they encourage the minimum build standard to get away with it rather than taking any pride in the quality of the houses.

In my opinion, the companies are too big and there has been too little competition.

pass the soap box - ta
Modern should be better - but it's worse because it seems to be dominated by a few big businesses and corrupt practices, in my opinion. It's the same with any trade, the big guys squeeze out the little ones, they command massive discounts from suppliers who can't survive without their business, who are forced to charge the rest of us over the odds for the same stuff. It's not about building it's about doing the bare minimum they can get away with and maximising profit. Almost anyone who hopes to stay in maintstream business and doesn't have a novel approach, ends up emulating them. It's considered weird not to want to cut corners on anything that will go unseen. I read (maybe here) about builders asking not how much to do the blower test, but how much to fake it. There are many exceptions I'm sure. That's British building today, I get the impression other countries do it much better - but why - more savvy consumers, more bespoke building, better checks and controls by BCOs - I don't know and maybe its just that the grass is always greener on the other side. step off soap box

In Victorian times, life and labour was cheap. They had cavity walls, but they filled the cavity with rubble and they used random and deep pieces of stone for the outer skin, incoporating through stones for strength instead of using cavity wall ties.

They seemed to understand the need for a DPC by 1900, using slate or tar at DPC level.

Timber for carcasing seems better than the stuff availabe today for Joinery.