Green Building Forum - Does the Green Building Forum have a future? Tue, 19 Dec 2023 08:59:05 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Does the Green Building Forum have a future? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298631#Comment_298631 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298631#Comment_298631 Fri, 04 Nov 2022 12:28:49 +0000 lineweight
But without doubt it has the most awful, outdated, infuriating forum interface I post on, anywhere on the internet.

Will it ever get updated?

I don't think I need to list the multiple things that are wrong with it - surely anyone who uses it knows.

I would post here more often and contribute more if the interface was brought up to the basic minimum standards we expect in 2022. Not just because the experience of using it would be more pleasant - but because there are things that actively prevent me from using it, as it is. For example, it's almost impossible to use on a phone screen. Other seemingly minor things that make it very easy to miss responses on threads you're interested in. How easy it is, to write a lengthy and detailed reply and then accidentally lose all of it in the stroke of a keypress.

It must put off potential new users too. Without new users the only direction is withering and death.


If it would be expensive to upgrade to modern forum software - how much? I'd potentially be willing to contribute to a crowdfunded effort.]]> Does the Green Building Forum have a future? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298632#Comment_298632 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298632#Comment_298632 Fri, 04 Nov 2022 17:48:36 +0000 Jeff B
I know what the OP means about losing a lengthy post. I learnt about this the hard way and now I always type a long reply in Open Office and copy and paste into a GBF thread!

Maybe I am not a very demanding person but I am quite happy with the GBF as it is.]]> Does the Green Building Forum have a future? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298635#Comment_298635 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298635#Comment_298635 Fri, 04 Nov 2022 18:12:35 +0000 borpin
The biggest issue will be that it is not SSL. At some point browsers will simply refuse to serve non-secure content.

Of the different forums I frequent, those based on Discourse (not Discord) https://www.discourse.org are the best. Some of the most prominent community sites are based on this software.]]> Does the Green Building Forum have a future? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298636#Comment_298636 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298636#Comment_298636 Fri, 04 Nov 2022 19:36:27 +0000 lineweight
Or which can't deal with more than one layer of quotes (so if you want to quote a reply that's already quoting someone else, you have to do manual surgery on the text markup tags to make the thing intelligible)?

Or which you can't set to automatically subscribe you to topics you've posted on?]]> Does the Green Building Forum have a future? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298637#Comment_298637 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298637#Comment_298637 Fri, 04 Nov 2022 19:40:05 +0000 Nick Parsons
Keith, what do you reckon?

Yours, positively,

Nick]]> Does the Green Building Forum have a future? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298638#Comment_298638 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298638#Comment_298638 Fri, 04 Nov 2022 19:51:32 +0000 Nick Parsons Does the Green Building Forum have a future? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298639#Comment_298639 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298639#Comment_298639 Fri, 04 Nov 2022 19:56:47 +0000 Charli
But GBF is quiet these days. As are many other forums I frequent.

Great store of information as well- I search and read much more than I post!]]> Does the Green Building Forum have a future? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298640#Comment_298640 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298640#Comment_298640 Fri, 04 Nov 2022 20:07:46 +0000 lineweight Posted By: CharliI love forums- checking for posts when you wish, on your own timetable. So many things have moved to facebook/etc- where if you're not constantly looking at your computer/phone you miss things.

Same here.

Not after anything fancy or packed with avatars and emoticons and so on.

Just some basic usability features.

About mobile phones - I appreciate some people might not ever want to use this forum on their phone.

But for other forums I look at - quite a lot of my reading time is on my phone, on train journeys, waiting for the bus, dentist waiting room, whatever. That's how many people use the internet now.

Phone's no good for writing long replies - I move to the computer for that.

But it's pretty standard these days for any forum software to automatically switch to a mode readable on a phone, when that's how someone's accessing it.]]> Does the Green Building Forum have a future? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298642#Comment_298642 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298642#Comment_298642 Fri, 04 Nov 2022 21:07:44 +0000 djh Posted By: lineweightAre there other forums out there where you have to choose between buttons to "format comments as text or html" and where you can't have functioning quotes in the same post as a working hyperlink?I'll grant you that is sometimes annoying, but at least it forces you to think about which is most important. :bigsmile:

Or which can't deal with more than one layer of quotes (so if you want to quote a reply that's already quoting someone else, you have to do manual surgery on the text markup tags to make the thing intelligible
Eh, people regularly do that, so I don't understand the problem?

Or which you can't set to automatically subscribe you to topics you've posted on?
That's a bit odd, but it's just a different style of working, IMHO.

Posted By: lineweight
Posted By: CharliI love forums- checking for posts when you wish, on your own timetable. So many things have moved to facebook/etc- where if you're not constantly looking at your computer/phone you miss things.


Same here.
Here's a quote, quoting a quote, BTW.

Mobiles, no, I'd never want to read a forum on a phone. I'm currently trying to persuade my GP to stop sending me texts with hyperlinks in - they're useless to me.]]> Does the Green Building Forum have a future? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298643#Comment_298643 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298643#Comment_298643 Fri, 04 Nov 2022 21:39:51 +0000 lineweight Posted By: djh
Posted By: lineweightAre there other forums out there where you have to choose between buttons to "format comments as text or html" and where you can't have functioning quotes in the same post as a working hyperlink?
I'll grant you that is sometimes annoying, but at least it forces you to think about which is most important.http:///newforum/extensions/Vanillacons/smilies/standard/bigsmile.gif" alt=":bigsmile:" title=":bigsmile:" >

Or which can't deal with more than one layer of quotes (so if you want to quote a reply that's already quoting someone else, you have to do manual surgery on the text markup tags to make the thing intelligible
Eh, people regularly do that, so I don't understand the problem?

Or which you can't set to automatically subscribe you to topics you've posted on?
That's a bit odd, but it's just a different style of working, IMHO.

Posted By: lineweight
Posted By: CharliI love forums- checking for posts when you wish, on your own timetable. So many things have moved to facebook/etc- where if you're not constantly looking at your computer/phone you miss things.


Same here.
Here's a quote, quoting a quote, BTW.

Mobiles, no, I'd never want to read a forum on a phone. I'm currently trying to persuade my GP to stop sending me texts with hyperlinks in - they're useless to me.

Ok - you're right - it can do it, but this is a very old fashioned way of dealing with quotes because it quickly becomes a mess once you've got more than 3 or 4 layers, which will inevitably happen in any thread of any length. This is why I find myself surgically removing them.

Modern bulletin board software doesn't do this; it just quotes the person you're responding to.

(P.S. see how it's made a mess of your emoticon, once it's inside a quote ^^)]]> Does the Green Building Forum have a future? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298644#Comment_298644 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298644#Comment_298644 Fri, 04 Nov 2022 21:42:50 +0000 lineweight Posted By: djhMobiles, no, I'd never want to read a forum on a phone.

But maybe you could consider the possibility that lots of others do.]]> Does the Green Building Forum have a future? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298645#Comment_298645 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298645#Comment_298645 Fri, 04 Nov 2022 22:56:59 +0000 Jonti Posted By: lineweight
Posted By: djhMobiles, no, I'd never want to read a forum on a phone.


But maybe you could consider the possibility that lots of others do.

and I would love my mobile to make a mug of coffee as I am sure many other people would but guess what....

sorry for the sarcasm, but really!!!!!]]> Does the Green Building Forum have a future? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298646#Comment_298646 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298646#Comment_298646 Fri, 04 Nov 2022 23:57:15 +0000 chrisinbrighton Does the Green Building Forum have a future? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298647#Comment_298647 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298647#Comment_298647 Sat, 05 Nov 2022 08:29:45 +0000 Dominic Cooney
I find the forum nostalgic, like an old friend. I think I have been on here about 15 years now, I was young, enthusiastic and fresh faced in those days. Have done 3 property conversions from scratch since 2000 and the forum is a mine of useful information and advice.]]> Does the Green Building Forum have a future? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298648#Comment_298648 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298648#Comment_298648 Sat, 05 Nov 2022 08:33:19 +0000 Artiglio Does the Green Building Forum have a future? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298649#Comment_298649 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298649#Comment_298649 Sat, 05 Nov 2022 09:19:45 +0000 Cliff Pope
I've often noticed that too. It's been suggested that the cause might be that regular users unintentionally gradually become too clubbish, forming an in-crowd that is off putting to would-be new members.
I suspect that might be true, not least because the tendency is I'm sure completely unnoticed by the regular users themselves.

One tell-tale is the use of people's christian names rather than their public pen names.]]> Does the Green Building Forum have a future? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298650#Comment_298650 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298650#Comment_298650 Sat, 05 Nov 2022 10:25:25 +0000 fostertom Posted By: ArtiglioThe majority of forums i’ve used have always moved in the direction of getting ever smaller in terms of the numbers of active usersTrue - the saddest example being the quite sudden decline of the AECB forum, which used to be at least as active and useful as GBF, invested in a major redesign, followed over the following year (but not because of) by everyone no longer posting. I asked why, admin's answer was because a) the leading lights geting to busy with 'real life'/too succesful in making a biz out of their knowledge/switching to Facebook. That stimulated my only attempt to get into social media, but couldn't live with
Posted By: Charliif you're not constantly looking at your computer/phone you miss things
and the unsearchability as a repository of past knowledge.

I think that 'move in the direction of ... smaller' isn't inherent in forums starting enthusiastically then running out of steam, but is due to the old-school forums, whether established or newly begun, becoming superceded by 'new' social media. But now that social media is far from 'new', it's a miracle that so many forums still hang in there.

Another which died, which I had a foundational stake in, was Sporting Fiats Club forum - but the 'other' Fiat Forum goes from strength to strength!]]> Does the Green Building Forum have a future? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298654#Comment_298654 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298654#Comment_298654 Sat, 05 Nov 2022 16:05:13 +0000 kristeva
All I'll say is another forum I often frequent - Period Property Renovation - went through a similar 'upgrade' recently and has enjoyed a new lease of life as a consequence, so there's something to be said for the OP's request I think. A new interface may draw in the crowds.]]> Does the Green Building Forum have a future? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298658#Comment_298658 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298658#Comment_298658 Mon, 07 Nov 2022 09:45:58 +0000 LF I also turn my phone sideways and
write posts in word or notepad if they are long as you may loose them.
Thankyou Keith. Lee]]> Does the Green Building Forum have a future? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298666#Comment_298666 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298666#Comment_298666 Mon, 07 Nov 2022 18:18:45 +0000 jamesingram Does the Green Building Forum have a future? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298671#Comment_298671 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298671#Comment_298671 Mon, 07 Nov 2022 19:33:12 +0000 LF A car forum I follow was broken when it was migrated and all the wonderful archive has been lost.]]> Does the Green Building Forum have a future? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298672#Comment_298672 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298672#Comment_298672 Mon, 07 Nov 2022 23:53:58 +0000 Artiglio Does the Green Building Forum have a future? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298688#Comment_298688 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298688#Comment_298688 Tue, 08 Nov 2022 16:16:29 +0000 Mike1
There was a thread a couple of years ago - http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16677 - mentioning the possibility of adopting https and upgrading to the latest version of the Vanilla forum software, which should make it more mobile-friendly & fix some of the other issues (the current version is well over 10 years old, maybe more that 15 - I can't actually find the release date).

It would be good if Keith is able to take a look at this again, even if finding time to do so is difficult. At some point the web host will stop supporting the PHP version that the existing forum requires - v5.x I think - which will stop it working.]]> Does the Green Building Forum have a future? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298709#Comment_298709 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298709#Comment_298709 Thu, 10 Nov 2022 11:18:12 +0000 Newbuild
I would be happy to give/do the required CSS styling to make the forum work better on phones - this is my biggest issue at the moment.

Let me know how to facilitate this.]]> Does the Green Building Forum have a future? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298727#Comment_298727 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298727#Comment_298727 Thu, 10 Nov 2022 16:34:58 +0000 wookey
I rather like this forum software (Vanilla 1.0.3), but then I've never tried using it on a phone.

There are newer releases (3.x) available here:
https://open.vanillaforums.com/
And migrating to the same system is likely to be a lot easier than moving elsewhere. Keith would no doubt like some help with that. We did get quite a lot of breakage last time the forum software was upgraded (lost all the pics IIRC).

They have probably fixed the 'text or html' bug sometime in the last decade. And it is likely to work better on small screens. However it's still PHP7 (not 8) so even upstream may have a limited future. https://open.vanillaforums.com/discussion/39197/php-7-4-end-of-life-plans-for-vanilla
PHP7 is available on Debian stable so a new install now could last another 8 years and be run on a server that costs about €4/month (Hetzner VM).

So personally I'd vote for just upgrading to current and seeing how that goes.

For people wanting to chat about retrofit in a more modern, but still open, way there is a matrix #retrofit channel which would benefit from larger participation. https://matrix.to/#/#retrofit:matrix.org (You'll need to create a matrix account if you've not used it before). Decentralised, open services are the future of 'social meeja', hopefully for all, but certainly for anyone who isn't a big fan of Meta, Google and Apple tracking and controlling everything. There is a range of matrix clients so you can choose what sort of user experience you want. It's not a threaded forum like this though - it's linear 'chat' (like signal and telegram and whatsapp) so not good for detailed discussion over a longer period. You can have a 'space' containing a set of rooms to try and separate-but-group subjects to some degree.

I find both chat-style comms and forum-style comms very useful (and have been using both for 20-25 years), but for different purposes.

A snazzier modern forum software would be discourse, as borpin pointed out. Flarum is also suggested on the vanilla forums (I'm not familiar with that - discourse is pretty good and has some sensible features) The question there would be how easy is it migrate the impressive collection of info this forum contains? Ease of migration depends primarily on the support the _destination_ software has. It seems that discouse has a vanilla import that works reasonably well (at least for this poster: https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrate-a-vanilla-forum-to-discourse/27273 ) So that might be a viable route.

But like I said, How about someone volunteers to help Keith update the software on this instance? And maybe some of us make a bit more use of the matrix #retrofit chat for 'chattier' things. Then in a year or so we can see how things are going?

I still recommend this forum to a lot of people - it has good advice and an excellent archive. But I do agree that there are fewer users than there used to be, which probably won't be changed by newer software but some newer software is likely to have useful improvements (we should check that before jumping).]]> Does the Green Building Forum have a future? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298734#Comment_298734 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298734#Comment_298734 Thu, 10 Nov 2022 19:04:52 +0000 bot de paille Most social media is free reddit, FB etc]]> Does the Green Building Forum have a future? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298767#Comment_298767 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298767#Comment_298767 Sat, 12 Nov 2022 08:16:00 +0000 Cliff Pope

???]]> Does the Green Building Forum have a future? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298770#Comment_298770 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298770#Comment_298770 Sat, 12 Nov 2022 18:57:02 +0000 bot de paille Posted By: Cliff Pope"Probably the biggest barrier to entry onto the forum is the subscription fee."


???

For new users it costs a subscription of 5 quid a year to post on the forum.]]> Does the Green Building Forum have a future? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298771#Comment_298771 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298771#Comment_298771 Sat, 12 Nov 2022 19:40:52 +0000 Nick Parsons Does the Green Building Forum have a future? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298772#Comment_298772 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17633&Focus=298772#Comment_298772 Sat, 12 Nov 2022 19:48:23 +0000 bot de paille Posted By: Nick Parsons£5 a year? (+ VAT). I thought it was a one-off fee. I saw someone's reference to it being free and thought maybe the charge had been dropped. I have been on long enough never to have paid but I would have paid several times - it's been - and still is - worth it. Would be nice if it could be free, though. If I remember rightly the imposition of a fee was more due to spam than for revenue-raising.Is that right, Keith?

Its 5 a year subscription.Which is very little, but I think def puts off people who possible only want to ask 1 or 2 questions. Most other social media is free.

I too have never paid, like propbably most of the regs here.Which says something possibly.]]>