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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.

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  1.  
    A customer had an old electric storage heater which no longer works. No product markings on it so we're assuming asbestos content given the age.

    Can anyone recommend an up to date storage heater or if not just a reasonable quality electric radiator to be used when required?

    Thanks
  2.  
    I've used mill radiators in our house:

    https://www.millheat.co.uk/#the-millheat-app

    Didn't want the WiFi function initially (they fine work without it) but now we've used it for a 12 months it's actually fairly handy. Bought because they met the 'Lot20 ' standard which is something your customer should look out for with any new electric heater.

    https://www.electricradiatorsdirect.co.uk/news/lot-20-explained-what-does-this-mean-for-electric-heating/
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJan 23rd 2020
     
    Aargh! What rubbish that Lot 20 seems to be! :devil:

    Misusing a basic and important word such as 'efficiency' for some arbitrary scale of unwanted complication and expense seems like something that should be punished by a firing squad IMHO.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeJan 26th 2020
     
    All on demand electric rads and fan heaters are 100% efficient. Having "cores" made of fancy materials makes no difference. So if you really must switch from storage to on demand/instant don't pay the really silly money some companies ask.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeJan 26th 2020
     
    All on demand electric rads and fan heaters are 100% efficient. Having "cores" made of fancy materials makes no difference. So if you really must switch from storage to on demand/instant don't pay the really silly money some companies ask.

    PS I mean 100% efficient as in all the electricity going in is turned into heat. Not the useless Lot 20 definition.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJan 27th 2020
     
    Please note that a heat pump is considerably more efficient generally 350 to 450% efficient in the sane terms.
  3.  
    Tony, agreed.

    We run one in the wifes shop. But as this is a single room application I can't see how this would be justified.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeJan 27th 2020
     
    +2
  4.  
    What about for storage heaters?

    Or just go with point of use?
  5.  
    We had some Adax Neo flat panel radiators previously (as backup in case we had underestimated heat load, which we had). We liked them as they didn't click, or smell of burnt dust, as others do.

    They had individual digital thermostats and time clocks which are also important. Despite its obvious faults this Lot20 seems to be making those mandatory which is good.

    In principle, storage heaters are greener and much cheaper to run, as they store off-peak electric, but whenever I used them they either stored too much heat and leaked it, or not enough heat.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJan 28th 2020
     
    Posted By: WillInAberdeenThey had individual digital thermostats and time clocks which are also important. Despite its obvious faults this Lot20 seems to be making those mandatory which is good.

    I disagree. I agree that an appropriate control system is a very good idea, but there's no reason why the control system must be part of the heater. None of mine are, for example. Lumping control systems into heaters simply results in duplication and also a more severe operating environment for the control system in most cases. I'd much rather have separate components.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDamonHD
    • CommentTimeJan 28th 2020 edited
     
    My issue with that djh -- and early prototypes of Radbot had a control/sensor unit and a distinct base -- is that (a) manufacturing costs are likely higher, and (b) the parts will get separated and mixed up.

    Rgds

    Damon
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJan 28th 2020
     
    But you were still (thinking of?) selling a unit with an integrated control system. I have complete separation. For example, a simple radiant bar heater powered by a separate fused connection unit that includes the control electronics. Or my post heater that is powered via a separate wifi-controlled plug, that is in turn controlled by a Raspberry Pi. So the parts are completely separate, bought at different times in different places from different people. And can be replaced separately if my needs change or if one part fails.

    I don't have any problem with making integrated products for people that do want them, but I don't and consequently I'm opposed to legislation that makes integration mandatory.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDamonHD
    • CommentTimeJan 28th 2020
     
    We weren't selling anything at that point. We are now selling (at least B2C) a simple stand-alone unit that does all the cleverness without any other parts / smartphone / WiFi / etc needed... Roll up roll up QVC is one outlet, and there for example, simplicity is a very useful message.

    You are an advanced user and represent a very small faction of the population.

    Rgds

    Damon
  6.  
    Nothing stopping you using a house thermostat to switch the radiator circuits - just set their internal thermostats to a high temperature and the clocks to be on 24/7, and they will henceforth be remotely controlled!

    But that's missing the point, as the selling point for electric radiators is you can heat each room independently at a time and temperature profile that best suits that room's function. That's why they used to come with nasty mechanical thermostats and clocks, which will apparently be digital under the new system. I see that some are also controllable by Alexa over the wifi.

    However if heaters are available more cheaply without controls, then cheaper installers will fit them in houses without switched radial circuits. The customer then ends up leaving them on for hours uncontrolled.

    Apparently the new system doesn't apply to post heaters, or storage heaters.
    • CommentAuthorMike1
    • CommentTimeJan 29th 2020 edited
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: WillInAberdeen</cite>I see that some are also controllable by Alexa over the wifi.</blockquote>

    Then let's hope that it's not necessary to rip them out when the manufacturers drop support for them... https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/01/23/sonos-depracates-legacy-devices-no-updates/
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