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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.

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    • CommentAuthorbetty_tv
    • CommentTimeSep 7th 2007
     
    Hello all

    I am working on a new Channel 4 documentary series which explores the relationship between builders and their clients with the working title ''Dont Blame the Builder''. I have permission from the team to post on this forum and was wondering if anyone would like to get in touch regarding involvement in our programme?

    The series is about the problems that can often arise on domestic building projects as a result of a breakdown of communication between clients and their builders. This is a common problem and can prove a real nightmare for both parties concerned. Unfortunately people are always blaming the builders but can it always be their fault? What about clients who have unrealistic demands, constantly change their minds or just can’t make a decision and don’t take your advice?

    We’re looking for builders who are experiencing a breakdown in communication with the client on a current project and need some help to get it back on track. We will offer the services (for free) of an industry expert to work with the homeowners and the builders to help resolve any problems. The programme is a great opportunity to reach an amicable solution that gets everything running smoothly again for all concerned. The first two episodes reached a successful conclusion for both parties concerned and I am confident that we can achieve the same result the third time around.

    If you are locked in a stand off with a client or are finding it difficult to cope with their constantly changing demands please contact me for an informal chat or email me details.

    Fiona 0207 907 0869 or fiona.wilson@betty.co.uk
    • CommentAuthorLizM
    • CommentTimeSep 7th 2007
     
    I presume we're talking homeowners here? Large building projects have a whole host of stakeholders that can bugger up the process.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeSep 7th 2007
     
    Posted By: betty_tvbreakdown of communication between clients and their builders
    So this is the area of the widespread practice of client going direct to builder, and the equally widespread myth that any building project is going to end up costing at least twice as much as originally intended. In that respect, what universally happens isn't so much a breakdown in communication between client and builder (though the client will hopefully be left with that impression), as a technique that builders openly regard as legitimate - to quote low, in order to secure the job, safe in the knowledge that all sorts of 'unforeseen extras' will be 'discovered' and most advantageously priced, once the client has no choice but to accept. I'm sorry if this affronts builder correspondents on this forum who have higher principles than this, but it can't be denied that it's the near-universal basis of most householder clients' experience of commissioning building work. My guess is that this programme, which I haven't seen, plays right into this groove, whilst studiously avoiding naming the game.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDaren
    • CommentTimeSep 8th 2007
     
    Tom,

    The legitimate technique that builders use is to price what is put on the drawings and not get a clearly defined spec from the client or designer before doing so. The client is generally at fault here, as he doesn't want to pay for the correct info to be put on the drawings, or can't be bothered to list everything thats required. They also change their mind without any consideration of cost. I'm a Architectural Technologist and I have seen many sets of drawings provided to builders done by so called designers (not be us), with little usefull information to enable a contractor to prepare an accurate quote.
    Yes some builders are dodgy, but sometimes clients get what they deserve.
    If they defined to the builder what they wanted built at day one, then there may not be so many problems.
    •  
      CommentAuthorrichy
    • CommentTimeSep 8th 2007
     
    I know of one heating and aircon firm that do large commercial works. They employ a 'spec buster' after securing the contract by pricing low, the spec buster pulls the architects design to pieces proving it doesn't work and then submits a working design at a higher price. The architects are in the wrong, but the customer loses.
    •  
      CommentAuthorted
    • CommentTimeSep 8th 2007 edited
     
    Posted By: fostertom... as a technique that builders openly regard as legitimate - to quote low, in order to secure the job, safe in the knowledge that all sorts of 'unforeseen extras' will be 'discovered' and most advantageously priced, once the client has no choice but to accept.


    I used to work for an international Civil Engineering company and this is exactly the basis upon which tenders were submitted.

    As far as I know it was standard practice amongst all Civil Engineering companies.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeSep 8th 2007 edited
     
    Posted By: Darento price what is put on the drawings and not get a clearly defined spec from the client
    If the client goes direct to the builder, the builder has three honourable options:
    1) question the client and clarify everything until he's satisfied that all is fully defined, with no later comebacks (apart from genuine unforeseens like finding a well, for which a contingency sum is built into the quote),
    2) insist that the client employs a designer to prepare full in formation and come back when that's done,
    3) refuse to price if full information can't be got.
    Those are all fine ways of losing the job to a less scrupulous competitor, so it must be really difficult for builders to stay honest.
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