Is that another of your companies ?

regards

Barney

~$ whois renewablerescue.co.uk

Domain name:
renewablerescue.co.uk

Registrant:
Nick Good

http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/account.php?u=6323

moulesnfrites Registered user
Real Name Nick Good

Probably just a co-incidence that they have the same name.

These things aren't supposed to look beautiful, so why not lay them out to use every sq inch? You might as well complain about the ruination caused by plastic windows, driveway-paved gardens, not to mention highway engineering, street lighting. All horrible but lets not get pious about ugly PV installations. Remember the kerfuffle about TV dishes? - all forgotten now.

Why shouldn't PVs be put on the diagonal? - looks functional, fits the space, zany even. Any good reason why bracketing manufacturers shouldn't permit - apart from they never thought of it?

Moving shadow shading - what an over-hopeful restrictive rule, now that we do have multi-channel inverters, modular ones even. Putting panels on adjoining slopes - if SE + SW what's wrong with that? AFAIK easterly/westerly orientation actually improves winter collection, albeit at disproportionate expense of high summer (when it's less-to-no use anyway).

Yes I can confirm that we are running both companies.

Unfortunately since sales companies moved into the solar market and with their fixed fee sub contractors we have ended up loads of with oversold miss installed solar PV systems that will never deliver the returns predicted and will therefore cause a massive amount of negative publicity to the renewable industry.
If the public conception is that solar doesn`t work and its a scam, it will be the end of a complete industry and the country will stall in its attempt to meet the Kioto agreements.

Just so you know :-
1. Modules have to be fitted to the manufacturers instructions and have positions where the clamps are allowed to go so diagonal mounting with the brackets in the wrong place invalidates any warranty.

2. East / West mounting works very well, I have it on my own house , however I have a 4000TL inverter which deals with two strings separately. In the split systems shown the modules have all been wired to single string inverters so they will not work properly. Its as bad as shading.

Its not a witch hunt its an attempt to get the MCS certification bodies to police the system better and not just hand out MCS membership to anyone who applies. Unfortunately as the CB`s are getting a membership income they dont appear too interested in making sure the consumers and the industry are protected.

We have superb renewable installers in Dorset who have the same concerns as NGPS, some of our competitors have provided some of the pictures. We do not want the industry damaged by train jumpers who will go back to double glazing, conservatories and skateboards when this bubble bursts leaving a complete mess behind them.


Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
― Dr. Seuss, The Lorax

Its easy to slag off anyone trying to improve standards and protect consumers from sharks.
Perhaps some of you negative posting trolls are the sharks ?

Perhaps some of you could provide links showing how you are trying to improve an industry and protect people from being scammed into investments that will never repay.

How about ' specialist' can I use that ? :)
I agree monfrites , many of these sudo quality control trade bodies and certification clubs are nothing more than self serving , that do little other than add to the cost for the end consumer.
Regarding poor installs and quick buck merchants , i think the horse has bolted on that one , especially with the last tariff drop.
Why not have a company thats soul purpose is to go round and rectify these substandard installs at the cost of the original sales company. Could well be a long drawn out, tricky venture though. Good luck.
What chance has the client got of getting back even the original survey fee ( if you have one ) ?
not to good if they have to pay out more to find they've been shafted without the problem being resolved.
All that said , you original post does seems a little like self advertising.
cheers Jim

Yes, thats always been my get out plan
Man of straw point aside , perhaps this puts the 'no win no fee' gang in a new light , champions of the consumer
Why not try to force profit making companies to do as they should be and make them pay for the clients inconvience if they haven't ?

Posted By: jamesingramStrangely that graph correlates exactly with my 10ish PV installs this year

What statistics is all about, I can work out lots more on PV, though I have only known one PV company to use them, the one I worked for briefly.

Posted By: betterroofIt's been a rocky year with lots of companies going under

How many do you think did this to dump debt? If you know the rug is being pulled out from under you in advance, it is a good time to not pay bills. Does the MCS allow transfer of membership from an defunct company to a new one?

Perhaps some of you could provide links showing how you are trying to improve an industry and protect people from being scammed into investments that will never repay.

Well if you have to know Moules, I've two first class honours degrees - electrical enginering and mechanical engineering as well as a master degree in environmental architecture. I'm trying to improve the industry by getting involved early and designing for passive solutions rather than a typical engineer role of providing a best fit solution to that south facing glass box the architect fancied trying out. It it has any bearing, I started out as an apprentice and did it all the hard way via a trade, HNC/HND etc generally part time.

As a broad principle - I'm the guy trying to reduce the demand and meet that demand efficiently before bolting green bling onto buildings just to fudge the EPC and the consequent benefits that has on BREEAM etc etc.

I don't disagree that the renewables sector (particularly those bits of it focusing on the domestic market) has good, bad and indifferent players - but that's no different to any other sector. What does concern me is pseudo outrage expressed by companies, that have had thier market squeezed, in terms of moral outrage against the competion and registration bodies - be that in the PV market place or such areas as Part P and the so called five day wonders. Lets not hide concerns over competion under a banner of quality and safety.

Does it really matter that a relatively small percentage of PV and solar thermal systems operate relatively inefficiently and may not be installed exactly in accordance with some narrow criteria - isn't the key that many more panels are now being sold and the price is dropping like a stone - ensuring greater market uptake - for which the relative % of good and bad will still achieve increasing carbon savings. No one holds a gun to the purchasers head - and believe me, consumers are a damn sight more savvy than many want to believe. If you are getting the FITS and potentially something later on the RHI a lot of people will be happy with that - often it's just an argument about "something for nothing" - the debate really is just how much that something is. Think of it say in solar thermal terms - should we be that focussed on collector efficiency if the input fuel is free anyway ?

Regards

Barney

Posted By: barneyI started out as an apprentice and did it all the hard way via a trade, HNC/HND etc generally part time.

But that's the problem there is no 'Trade' anymore, no one takes on apprentices or provides proper training. A mate of mine spent all last year installing PV, he tells me that at many of the people we worked with did not have a trade background and most you would not employ if it were your firm. He's now working for himself and a high percentage of the work is wind and PV fault rectification.

I had a guy (FENSA registered company) fitting windows, he admitted that he struggling as he'd never fitted windows into stone recessed mullions. His speciality (his words) 'fitting uPVC windows into nice rectangular openings'.

12 months ago the gas meter was changed by a buy who previously worked for Group 4 Security, he'd been trained and certified to only replace gas meters. So I asked him what do you do if there’s a problem - answer -- turn of the gas and call for help!

So maybe the ambulance chaser, being one of the few who has been trained, is in the ascendancy. As an aside I see claims against the NHS are also on the increase.

Posted By: barneyDoes it really matter that a relatively small percentage of PV and solar thermal systems operate relatively inefficiently and may not be installed exactly in accordance with some narrow criteria

you obviously haven't had to deal with the phone calls from customers of now bankrupt companies that have miss sold them systems for double our prices that are under performing by 50% because they didn't factor in the sodding great chimney that shades the system until 2pm every day of the year, and used an undersized inverter that's limiting output by 10%, and will probably die an early death as a result.

or the ones who's roof is leaking because of the mounting system being bolted through the tile with just a dab of silicon to water proof it.

All of which falls squarely into the category of Not MY Problem, yet they're regularly landing on my door step even though we're not advertising as MNF is, and REAL are snowed under and fairly useless anyway. I probably ought to just turn them away and say sorry, can't help, but then I'm maybe a bit soft like that or something.

There is a serious problem out there of miss selling by these marketing companies who're not even REAL members, so real can't touch them unless you can prove the install company was responsible for the claims made... but how does a vulnerable customer know how to prove this? They'll also just go bust at the point that any compensation claims for miss-selling start coming in in serious numbers, leaving their customer high and dry with no warranty protection at all, and no come back for the miss sold products.

isn't the key that many more panels are now being sold and the price is dropping like a stone

have a look again at the graph ST posted. the industry now is installing a small percentage of the level we were installing last autumn prior to the cut announcement, as the government has contrived to destroy consumer confidence in the industry, not helped by the sort of rogue companies I've described above. The actual economics of the situation ought to favor increased take up as costs have more than halved, and returns are back to the 12-15% range at the top end of the scale, but the market isn't be having rationally because of the negative perceptions that have developed from the bad publicity etc over the last year.

I've no problem with fair competition from quality companies, in fact I'm of the opinion that it actually builds the market generally for all of us so is a good thing, but I've a serious problem with fly by night chancers who don't even have to play by the same rules we do due to some bizarre legal loophole, who'll destroy the credibility of the industry in the public mind before jumping ship to whatever the next scam is... I have even more of a problem with this when we're forced to pay out stupid money to REAL, MCS, NAPIT etc and jump through ever stricter hoops that these scammers don't have to worry about at all. so we're being done over twice and yet the schemes are incapable of doing what they're supposed to be doing and upholding high standards and preventing miss selling in the industry.

I've no idea if MNF's scheme will work, but I applaud him for at least doing something as the current situation stinks.

Spot on Gavin - That is exactly what we are seeing - a market flooded with really bad installations from companies who have now disappeared. If the client even knows they have a received a bad deal, they certainly don't know who to talk to to get it fixed. I've come across many many people who have had a bad install and have just thought that was it, and that they should just put up with it. We've then gone in and put it right and made sure they understand what they have and how to make the most of it and they've been amazed (same with a lot of thermal tbh). It's depressing.

please consider the fact that we are forced to pay out around 1-2k per year to MCS, REAL precisely because we were told that these schemes would protect the industry and prevent these scum from being able to operate in this manner in this industry, never mind all the courses we have to go on to get the bit of paper when our staff know far more than the instructor most of the time.

This is over and above the existing competent persons scam fees all electrical and heating contractors have to pay.

If you paid out that sort of money on the basis that these schemes would protect the entire industry from the scammers would you not be a little bit narked to find that the scammers were actually able to operate with impunity in the industry, and even undercut you purely on the basis that they don't have to worry about those sorts of costs, or covering warrantees as they know they'll be out of business long before that becomes an issue.

MCS and REAL get zero government funding, their entire running costs come from our fees, yet they seem incapable of doing what they're being paid to do - apparently because of a loophole in the base law that underpins their operations.

So how do you ensure that a company is not just a marketing company subbing out to a MCS contractor as a business to business transaction and hence outside consumer law/REAL?

I think it's an appalling loophole if correct - our legal system helps and encourages unscrupulous companies to sell products, take considerable sums of money from 'us, the people' - without having to take any responsibility for the quality or function of that product...

seascape , I'll second that info re loop hole , it's true, been the case from day one of FITs
As ever with trade type work , go small, go local , they've got more to loose if they muck up.