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Housing - Renovation: Replacement windows - warm edge spacers or not?

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  1.  
    Johan, I see you answered some of my questions, but not all.

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion and preference as you say. including me. My queries were posted in response to your provocative post insinuating that I should not be discussing upvc windows here

    If you give it , i'm afraid you have to take it as well
    :wink:
    • CommentAuthorJohan
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2007 edited
     
    Posted By: Mike GeorgeJohan, I see you answered some of my questions, but not all.

    Which one didn't I anwer? I see three question marks in your post and three answers in mine. Seems like a match to me! ;)

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion and preference as you say. including me. My queries were posted in response to your provocative post insinuating that I should not be discussing upvc windows here

    It wasn't ment be provocative, and I agree it's better maintaining existing PVC windows then ripping them out. But are they really a good option for new builds?

    If you give it , i'm afraid you have to take it as well
    :wink:"

    Hit me! :bigsmile:
    • CommentAuthorMike George
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2007 edited
     
    Posted By: JohanWhich one didn't I anwer?

    The one about timber prices going up, you answered it with a question.
    Posted By: Johan I agree it's better maintaining existing PVC windows then ripping them out. But are they really a good option for new builds?

    No, but cost is always a factor, choice allways depends on budget, not the other way around.
    Posted By: Johan Hit me!

    No thanks, I'm a runner not a fighter :peace:
    • CommentAuthorbiffvernon
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2007
     
    Mike, I am interested in why you seem to be dismissing insulated spacers. As I said before, they will be more important in a small window or one divided into small panes by glazing bars, but surely anything that improves the overall insulation is worth doing. Anyway, the firm that make my units don't give the choice - that's fine by me, who needs choice when the only thing on offer is the best.

    Let's not argue about pvc - most of us know it's totally evil and those who don't...well, some folk even believe they've been abducted by aliens. But Mike, this price thing. Put some figures on it and let's see how much cheaper they really are.

    Yes chestnut's fine too, but my sawmill deals in oak not chestnut - maybe it's a northern thing. They use a lot of chestnut in Italy and France.
    • CommentAuthorMike George
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2007 edited
     
    Biff, Of course anything which improves insulating values can be said to be 'worth doing' and if you don't have a choice then as you say why bother arguing over them.

    My point is not that they will save energy-obviously they will. It is whether they save enough to warrant their extra cost, last time I was quoted for them, which was admittedly a few years ago, they were expensive. It would also be interesting to do the maths to see exactly how much saving can be made for a typical [1.5m2?] window. Not a lot, I suspect.

    The other issue is that of thermal bridging. If you have a frame which is full of air,such as most UPVC, what is the point in insulated spacers at the edge of it? Oak is different I agree, but then it costs more overall doesn't it.

    Regarding figures I will be pricing up a conversion job soon - only three or four windows. How about if I post the sizes, specification and quoted cost here and we'll see if someone making timber is prepared to match it? [Would Keith object to this?]

    PS. A martian does visit this forum on occasion, please don't rubbish alien existence:bigsmile:
    • CommentAuthorbiffvernon
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2007
     
    OK, Just as a ball park figure to set the ball rolling, I might charge five or six hundred pounds for a window that's a meter-ish square, hinged casement or horizontaly sliding Yorkshire sash. Of course the two most important parts of the specification are that they look nice and will still look nice in 200 years.
  7.  
    Aha, compare that then to £300/m2 ish fitted upvc. Looking nice is subjective, 200 year lifespan is [sadly] irrelavant to the move every seven year average joe.

    Perhaps I should get more principle and less work, hmm, I'll ask the wife what she thinks.
    •  
      CommentAuthorNovy Mlyn
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2007
     
    PVC windows are the rage here (Czech Republic). People are busy ripping out their old Vienna style windows to replace them with plastic. Such a pity. Every local visitor I have seems to think that I should do the same thing - get rid of my 100+ year old windows with their lovely brass fittings. I'm working my way through the house - window by window, repainting and blocking drafts. A new coat of paint and they look lovely.

    PVC windows reduce the value of your house in the UK - and that's definitely something that the 'move every seven year average joe' will be thinking about.
    • CommentAuthorMike George
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2007 edited
     
    Posted By: Novy MlynPVC windows are the rage here (Czech Republic). People are busy ripping out their old Vienna style windows to replace them with plastic. Such a pity. Every local visitor I have seems to think that I should do the same thing - get rid of my 100+ year old windows with their lovely brass fittings. I'm working my way through the house - window by window, repainting and blocking drafts. A new coat of paint and they look lovely.

    Good for you. I would do the same in your position, especially in a building of historic value.
    Posted By: Novy Mlyn
    PVC windows reduce the value of your house in the UK - and that's definitely something that the 'move every seven year average joe' will be thinking about.

    Not in my experience. The estate agents where I live use UPVC double glazing as a selling point.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2007 edited
     
    Posted By: Mike George£300/m2 ish fitted upvc
    I'm getting £330/m2 + VAT supply only for top Scandinavian triple glazed.
  11.  
    That sounds good, how much do you estimate for fitting?

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