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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
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    • CommentAuthorBen1974
    • CommentTimeApr 6th 2011
     
    Does anyone have any definitive documentation in relation to building tolerances? I have a SIP building that is +20mm on overall length (10m elevation) and +15mm on width (6m elevation).

    I am being told that NHBC, TRADA, UKTFRA and some un-named british standard all allow a 20mm variation from floor to floor.

    It seems a little fishy to me as 20mm variation is in all likelyhood +/-10mm. Therefore the building is outside these tolerances anyway. I can't track down a document from any of these organisations that pertains to the tolerances. Apart from one from the NHBC which gives the tolerance as +/-8mm.

    We have a problem as the oversize building has closed up our residual cavity. We can get round it by backing off our stonework but as you can imagine it's a considerable amount of work.
    • CommentAuthorsipman
    • CommentTimeApr 6th 2011
     
    Ben

    Not sure on tolerances, in general building terms 20mm over 10m would be classed as good.With a Sipsbuild It is critical that the soleplate is fixed accurately and the fitters should know that. Inexperienced fitters or fitters rushing to finish on a fixed price. Did the supplier have a tollerance for the accuracy of your foundations ?
    • CommentAuthorBen1974
    • CommentTimeApr 6th 2011
     
    Thanks for the reply and I guess from your name you must be an expert!

    +/-5mm was the specified tolerance for foundation and so it follows this would be the same tolerance for the setting out of the sole plate. It would seem a little strange for someone to build the entire basement level of a building to such a close tolerance only to allow someone to cut a piece of wood for a sole-plate to a lesser accuracy!

    I'd agree that in general building terms but surely for a factory cut panel system one would expect to better that?

    I was told +/-10mm by the supplier initially and that would have been achieved but for some of the panels not being pulled up tight on the over-length elevation. If an open joint in that elevation had been pulled up the building would have been within +/-10mm and we would have been OK.
    • CommentAuthorTimber
    • CommentTimeApr 6th 2011
     
    From memory, but I will check tomorrow, walls should be position something like +/- 5 mm from the layout drawings or something like that.

    Sole plates are allowed to overhang the foundations by up to 10 mm, but walls ontop should be lined to +/-5.

    That is a bit more difficult to do with SIP if the wall panel fits over the sole plate. In which case it would make sense to say sole plates should be to +/- 5 mm to allow the walls to be installed correctly.

    Generally the splash course should be left off until the building is erected to ensure this kind of thing is less of a problem if it does occur.

    It generally sounds like you have some problems with the building (sloppy erection), but it is difficult because I guess you don't want it taken down and re-built!!!! As such you (being the metaphoric you) end up forced into a possition of accepting what you get :(

    As mentioned in your other thread, I would find out if the SIP manufacturer/supplier has 3rd party certification. If so a formal complaint to the certification company might focus some minds a little more.
    • CommentAuthorBen1974
    • CommentTimeApr 6th 2011
     
    Timber, any information you have on the tolerances would be extremely helpful especially if you happen to have a copy of the relevant document. We've nailed down the sole plate tolerance to the manufacturers construction manual but the upper storey are a little looser (no puns intended!)

    The company uses a BBA certificated system but the manufacturer doesn't seem to want to get involved. (or at least haven't shown an interest yet) We've been down various routes of looking at getting a TRADA inspection etc but it's expensive and we don't really want to put our lives on hold for months or years while lengthy court battles are fought out.

    We're taking a pragmatic view that if we can get the rest of the building up and work around/repair various other deficiencies we can start to put the whole sorry episode behind us. You are correct about the splash course but in this case the SIP building sits on a conventional basement level that was built up with both skins first. We knew the required tolerances were tight and so managed to build to less than the required +/-5mm on length/width and with +/-2mm on height. (we even leveled a 10m run of steel work supporting the rear of the building to less than 1mm!) It's so depressing to think what has happened after six months of agonising over getting it right.

    I truly wish that we were in the position of thanking the supplier for a job well done and handing over a cheque for the final payment. It would certainly be lot easier and less time consuming than what we're having to go through at the moment.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeApr 7th 2011 edited
     
    Not sure if length of walls is in this document but other dims are...

    http://www.nhbc.co.uk/NHBCpublications/LiteratureLibrary/Technical/filedownload,15912,en.pdf

    Edit: Sorry I think that's mostly about finishes.
    • CommentAuthorbarney
    • CommentTimeApr 7th 2011
     
    You could try BS 5606, BS 6750 and ISO 1803

    Regards

    Barney
    • CommentAuthorBen1974
    • CommentTimeApr 7th 2011
     
    BS5606 I have and is mostly about dealing with the issues of accuracy/tolerances in building. I'm currently being merrily misquoted sections from it by the supplier.

    I'll check out the other two though.

    The NHBC one I have already though and like you say it concerned with finishes. Makes interesting reading though, I'm sure you could play merry hell with it in relation to a building thrown up by you're average volume house builder!
    • CommentAuthorsipman
    • CommentTimeApr 7th 2011
     
    Ben

    The problem is not with the panels, it is the soleplate. My fitters will typically spend two days accurately fixing the plates, checking levels, diaganalls, etc. Once the Soleplate is fixed this forms the template for the job. The end panel on an elevation will often need to be trimmed to fit, today we had to trim a panel by 6mm on a site in Huddersfield.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2011
     
    Why on earth can't panels, whether SIPS or stud, be made accurate to the millimetre, in a factory? That's just plain sloppy. Especially, as sipman says, the soleplate can be laid out spot-on, on site. Trimming sips panels on site? that's outrageous.
    • CommentAuthorsipman
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2011
     
    Tom

    trimming should be minimal when we have a long run of panels, the manufactured panels (OSB) have a tollerance and can be say 1222mm wide instead of 1220mm, hence we can get a little creep.

    but the soleplate is key and good site practice
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