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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.

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  1.  
    I am planning to fit infrared heaters in our garage conversion. The garage is separate from the house, so hasn't got mains gas. Has anyone got experience with the efficiency and economy of these.
    • CommentAuthorDarylP
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2014
     
    efficient ...yes,
    economical, depends on how big your garage is, and how well insulated & draught-proofed....?:smile:
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2014
     
    Would you rather have 100% efficient or 350% efficient?
  2.  
    It depends how you intend to use the garage. If you are for example going to be working at a bench in a fixed spot then an IR heater overhead of that spot will work well. But if you are constantly moving around or working under a vehicle then IR is unlikely to suit you at all.
    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2014
     
    How many hours a month will you be working in your garage conversion?
  3.  
    thanks for your replies. I am converting the garage to residential use, ie visitor accomodation. So it wont be used on a regular basis. Its a solid wall/brick construction, which I will internally insulate with 75mm Celotex to floor and walls plus 150mm to roof.
    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2014
     
    Infrared heaters may work in a kitchen or bathroom, they don't work well for rooms that you are in for a long time.

    The ideal is that they have high running costs per minute, but you don't need them on for many minutes as there is no "warm up" time for the room.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2014
     
    On the other hand, there's no particular reason to think IR heaters are any worse than other form of direct electrical heating and they may well have some of the advantages of UFH or other large low-temperature radiators.
    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2014
     
    There is, you legs under a table feel very cold, but you upper body feel too hot.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2014
     
    no one interested? Would you rather have 100% efficient or 350% efficient? simple to answer!
    • CommentAuthorSteveZ
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2014
     
    I'll bite, Tony. Go for a cheap A2A Heat Pump?
    • CommentAuthorbxman
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2014
     
    Is tony selling heat pumps or have I missed something ?

    If your feet are cold under the table there is a 250w heat lamp used in animal husbandry
    that will solve that particular problem but it does need a ceramic bulb holder and a switch to turn it off when you are no longer cold .
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2014
     
    I am not selling heat pumps but would like one considered for this application, only possible issue could be noise.

    Yes cheap DIY installed one bought online. Probably close to the same cost as a couple of ir heaters but running costs very much lower plus air cooling is possible too, though for well designed buildings that should not be needed.
  4.  
    Tony you got me interested. You think a2a heat pumps are more efficient? Have you got any systems or suppliers to suggest? Maybe whisper any details.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2014
     
    I go on eBay/Amazon/alibaba and look to pay less than 500for pre gassed DIY install

    350% efficient
  5.  
    Thanks for tip Tony, will do.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2014
     
    I am considering a small (the smallest I have found/shown) A2A HP for my place. Problem is I really need two of them and it then is not really financially viable. But will be a nice toy to play with and should cut the heating bill down a bit (though if it went to 0 I will still be out of pocket for a few years).
    I worked in a place with IR heaters when I was a lad, was hopeless, never found a decent way to stay warm, either too hot or too cold, anything in the 'shadows' was freezing cold, the chemicals we were using did not react properly, just hopeless.
    Probably why I don't hold with the idea that 'warm walls radiate heat' :wink:
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2014
     
    Posted By: SteamyTea'warm walls radiate heat'
    They don't, on a nett basis, unless they're at higher temp than your skin! What they do is slow down the nett radiation emission from your skin, so you feel warmer. If nett emission from your skin is prevented, you'll feel extremely uncomfortable and eventually die, especially if you're getting nett radiation gain from the walls.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2014 edited
     
    Posted By: fostertomIf nett emission from your skin is prevented, you'll feel extremely uncomfortable and eventually die, especially if you're getting nett radiation gain from the walls.
    Can I see the research paper on that please, it is a bold claim :wink:
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2014 edited
     
    The body burns fuel (food) continually, generating energy; expends some in mechanical work, the rest in waste heat. What happens if that heat can't be dumped out? (same goes for planet Earth).

    When composite surrounding air/radiant (Sol-air) temp approaches or exceeds skin temp, you can still sweat to dump heat by evaporation, or pant if you're a dog; when that cooling capacity is exceeded, and/or if you dehydrate, you're in trouble, 'heat-stroke' etc, and eventually runaway body temp.

    How else do you see it working?

    The body always has to be losing heat; comfort depends on how fast/slow is the loss rate.
  6.  
    Hi,
    Radiation and theory has always fascinated me. Look at "Human body emission" ooh aargh vicar on Wiki :-

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black-body_radiation

    Also interesting is the heat input to the earth from the sun and the radiation from Earth into space. The silvered sheets they use to keep people warm work by reflecting body radiation back to the body. I wonder what the effect would be if a room was totally reflective of all the bodies radiation ?

    Richard
    • CommentAuthorrhamdu
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2014
     
    Has anyone experimented with retroreflective optics such as those used in bicycle reflectors? I have often thought that these might be spread over the ceilings of large, under-occupied buildings such as warehouses. You'd then walk about in a little pool of your own reflected body heat.

    You are probably going to tell me an extra jumper would be cheaper and just as effective.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2014
     
    Posted By: SteamyTeaI worked in a place with IR heaters when I was a lad, was hopeless, … Probably why I don't hold with the idea that 'warm walls radiate heat'
    Hmm, that experience is not really applicable but to the extent it is surely it indicates that radiant heat is important?
  7.  
    Hi rhamdu,
    Maybe more applicable to homes. Warehouses are enormous these days with few people in them. If it is possible to make people feel comfortable by clever use of radiant reflectors at say 15 C instead of 20 C then that would be something.

    The only time I had experienced the effect of cold walls was when I went on holiday for a week and the home central heating was off and no cooking/telly/lights. When I got home everything was at about 12 C. Even when the air temperature was 20 C it felt cold. It took a good 3 days before it felt comfortable again. Walking into the house from a warm outside it immediatly felt cold even with 20 C air temperature.

    Richard
    • CommentAuthorrhamdu
    • CommentTimeOct 25th 2014
     
    Posted By: HalcyonRichardWarehouses are enormous these days with few people in them.
    That's why I thought they'd like a way to keep people warm without heating the whole space, the whole time.
    I'm not sure bike-reflector material all over the ceiling would be aesthetically acceptable in homes.
    All this assuming it works at all...:bigsmile:
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2019
     
    I know it is an old thread, but I saw this tweet and it explains a lot of the discussion above. Surprised none of our more learned friends mentioned it :bigsmile:

    https://twitter.com/SandersonAidan/status/1178556350416261121?s=20

    "Standard electric resistance heats the air whilst longwave infrared heats the people and internal surfaces."
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2019
     
    Hmm, that'll be why standard electrical resistance heaters have curved mirrors behind them to reflect the heat forwards then :bigsmile:

    And why if you place your hand in front of one it gets a lot hotter than if you place it above (where hot air rises to)
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2019
     
    And they are 100% efficient unless some heat gets radiated out of the windows
  8.  
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: tony</cite>I go on eBay/Amazon/alibaba and look to pay less than 500for pre gassed DIY install

    350% efficient</blockquote>

    any up to date recommended suppliers?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJan 18th 2021
     
    I go and look on eBay
   
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