Tue, 19 Dec 2023 06:03:15 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224251#Comment_224251 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224251#Comment_224251 Tue, 12 May 2015 14:30:03 +0100 Carol hunter
so we now live in our straw bale home and have a wood burning range which does all our cooking, heating and hot water in the winter. Come the summer our cooking options are much reduced in the house; no alternative to wood. Do use a rocket stove outside and probably will do a solar oven, but I would like to have an iven inside. Please would someone advise me about most energy efficient option for retro fitting into kitchen?
I've looked at steam ovens briefly and wonder if they can easily be retrofitted. Don't have an obvious place/vent to outside, so the simpler the better. I dislike microwaves passionately.
Do steam ovens need a place for heat/water to go? Do they make food kind of wet, steamed rather than roasted?
I'm thinking a table top kind of style rather than big built in….
Thank you!]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224256#Comment_224256 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224256#Comment_224256 Tue, 12 May 2015 14:53:02 +0100 tony http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224260#Comment_224260 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224260#Comment_224260 Tue, 12 May 2015 15:12:46 +0100 Carol hunter http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224261#Comment_224261 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224261#Comment_224261 Tue, 12 May 2015 15:16:05 +0100 SteamyTea To cook a 4 oz potato takes the same amount of energy. It has the same specific heat capacity no matter what. You can cook it more efficiently though. So roasting it on your wood burning stove is not going to be the same as boiling it in a pot, or a microwave oven. They all loose different amounts of energy.

Then there is the carbon foot print, here a solar powered oven is probably best (PV or ST), once the embodied energy of the panels and oven are paid off, the rest is carbon neutral.
Anything that involves burning, either locally or at a distance, is not going to be carbon neutral.
If you want to get an idea of how long it takes to pay back the embodied CO2 of a potatao by using a wood burner, work out the average ring count of what you are burning. So if the average is 10 rings, then it is at least 10 years to grow the similar amount of timber (contentious I know).]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224263#Comment_224263 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224263#Comment_224263 Tue, 12 May 2015 15:43:04 +0100 GarethC http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224267#Comment_224267 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224267#Comment_224267 Tue, 12 May 2015 15:50:33 +0100 SteamyTea All about watts in and watts out.
We could do a standard test.
Set the oven at 180° (gas mark 4), put a litre of boiling water into a pre-heated dish, leave in oven for 30 minutes. Allow to cool and measure the evaporation losses.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224272#Comment_224272 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224272#Comment_224272 Tue, 12 May 2015 16:25:35 +0100 DarylP ...we just have fitted a Neff oven.
The o/s barely gets warm, the door is never hot, so I am guessing most of the energy input stays inside the oven?
This would suggest it is quite efficient, and it certainly cooks a lot quicker than the old Hotpoint!

Cheers
]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224275#Comment_224275 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224275#Comment_224275 Tue, 12 May 2015 16:40:24 +0100 tony http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224281#Comment_224281 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224281#Comment_224281 Tue, 12 May 2015 18:30:34 +0100 skyewright Posted By: tonyMicrowaves heat only the food, traditional ovens get hot so are less efficient.
It's over 2 year since we did away with even a hob. We just have 2 microwaves, a 1000W and a 700W (both "combinations, but hardly ever used as such). Two vegetarian adults. No kids. Suits us. No we don't live off ready meals.

Oh, and a kettle, of course.

PS. There's a camping double burner and a gas bottle tucked away in case of emergencies, though the smaller of the 2 microwaves could be run off our generator.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224284#Comment_224284 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224284#Comment_224284 Tue, 12 May 2015 19:19:40 +0100 crosbie http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00VE1CJPI

Here's a really efficient one: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00651T6AI (Russell Hobbs 18537 Halogen Oven )]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224285#Comment_224285 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224285#Comment_224285 Tue, 12 May 2015 19:26:27 +0100 renewablejohn Posted By: tonySolar oven!

Would certainly go solar but using thermal oil. Unfortunately the ovens are still commercial quality used for patisserie baking as the end product is far better than similar ovens fired by gas or oil. You could also use heat recovery from your woodstove to heat the thermal oil so that you could use the oven all year round.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224287#Comment_224287 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224287#Comment_224287 Tue, 12 May 2015 20:16:34 +0100 gravelld Posted By: GarethCAren't halogen ovens supposed to be good mainly due to extremely fast warming times?They are normally compared to conventional ovens, and the simple fact that they are much much smaller obviously helps. Not sure if they radiant heat is also a bigger factor than in a normal oven which is mostly convection?

Slow cookers are great if you have PV - you don't need a very sunny day to get a free meal. Trouble is browning the meat (if you are eating meat) at the start ;) That said I've found you can actually sweat onions in our slow cooker given enough heat up time.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224313#Comment_224313 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224313#Comment_224313 Wed, 13 May 2015 11:00:25 +0100 djh Posted By: Carol hunterI've looked at steam ovens briefly and wonder if they can easily be retrofitted. Don't have an obvious place/vent to outside, so the simpler the better. I dislike microwaves passionately.
Do steam ovens need a place for heat/water to go? Do they make food kind of wet, steamed rather than roasted?
I'm thinking a table top kind of style rather than big built in….
Miele do a nice counter top steam oven. Neff do some built-in ones. Panasonic do a nice counter top steam-microwave-grill-oven.

The better steam ovens condense and catch the steam and/or recirculate it, so there's much less steam than when using a steamer on a hob. Most of these products have grill and/or dry oven capability as well as steaming, so they can cook things however you want them.

As others have said, some halogen ovens are quite good if you don't need steam, and microwaves are probably the most energy efficient (I can't think of any reason they wouldn't be, but I have no evidence). I can't think of any reason to dislike microwave ovens, but there's no point arguing with passionate beliefs.

There are various review sites for products. Which is a bit hit and miss because they only review a very few models. John Lewis is quite good to go and have a look.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224318#Comment_224318 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224318#Comment_224318 Wed, 13 May 2015 11:17:34 +0100 SteamyTea
I don't think there is much difference between the energy usage of a microwave and an electric over, gas uses a bit more because it has to vent the combustion gases, electric fan ovens seem to use a little less, but that may be because you can cram more in them. I like electric fan ovens.
Gas is my favourite oven type, seems to cook 'more gently', but the temperature spread inside them is greater (case of know your oven).

If I was forced to have just one oven type for ever, it would be fan assisted electric, cheap to buy, consistent and easy to clean.
One day I will find a decent grill, one day.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224337#Comment_224337 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224337#Comment_224337 Wed, 13 May 2015 13:30:39 +0100 djh Posted By: SteamyTeaIt is odd, in over 35 years in catering ... I have never seen a steam oven, not once. I wonder why that is?
Historically, they're fairly rare except in very specialist situations. Normally people have steamed things in water-filled steamers on a hob, or in closed dishes in an oven. I suspect that in most commercial kitchens that's still the case, because it's cost effective and the ventilation clears the steam. As the domestic market has developed, particularly in Asia, people are prepared to pay for more automation and less mess. So of the ones I mentioned Miele brought out their successful model several years ago, Panasonic is trying to build an all-singing-all-dancing oven and Neff is catching up as fast as it can.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224373#Comment_224373 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224373#Comment_224373 Wed, 13 May 2015 22:54:18 +0100 Simon Still
New top of the range Siemens oven does the lot - fan oven, grill, steam and microwave. Steam seems to be an increasing feature - have never used it but hear good things. I get the impression common in high end commercial kitchens.

For me a fan oven works but must be "pyrolytic" - has a programme to get super hot and burn off all the dirt. Much better than using toxic oven cleaner. We only ran ours a couple of times a year and always in winter so all energy went to heat the house.

Will likely try a steam oven this time - meant yo be great for defrosting and reheating without drying out as well as cooking. We're going to skip a microwave this time. I've no woo health fears about them, and I'm sure they're super efficient but they don't cook well. Reheating drys things out and is uneven, defrosting part cooks. Actually cooking pale wet and unappetising.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224383#Comment_224383 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224383#Comment_224383 Thu, 14 May 2015 09:16:15 +0100 joe90
I have an electric fan oven and it's good, I also have a tiny cheap plug in worktop oven/grill and that's great to as you only heat a small space, got to be cheaper to run !!!]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224388#Comment_224388 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224388#Comment_224388 Thu, 14 May 2015 09:39:57 +0100 CWatters http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224413#Comment_224413 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224413#Comment_224413 Thu, 14 May 2015 16:54:11 +0100 Ed Davies http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224414#Comment_224414 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224414#Comment_224414 Thu, 14 May 2015 17:19:27 +0100 SteamyTea Boiling in water isn't, though some things change phase, like an egg. Liquid to solid. Which is strange when you think about it. It should get runnier as it gets hotter.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224423#Comment_224423 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224423#Comment_224423 Thu, 14 May 2015 18:34:25 +0100 Simon Still http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224424#Comment_224424 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224424#Comment_224424 Thu, 14 May 2015 18:57:52 +0100 Ed Davies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denaturation_%28biochemistry%29#How_denaturation_occurs_at_levels_of_protein_structure

Whatever, my basic point is that saying that something is changed at a molecular level seems like pseudo-scientific way of making it seem more dramatic than it really is.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224427#Comment_224427 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224427#Comment_224427 Thu, 14 May 2015 19:49:48 +0100 crosbie
http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224430#Comment_224430 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224430#Comment_224430 Thu, 14 May 2015 20:28:09 +0100 SteamyTea ]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224431#Comment_224431 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13362&Focus=224431#Comment_224431 Thu, 14 May 2015 21:00:25 +0100 Ed Davies http://www.treelobsters.com/2015/05/684-stellar-light.html]]>