Green Building Forum - Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation

Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation

GreenPaddy — Fri, 13 Jan 2023 16:24:46 +0000

Just saw this snippet!!!

Scotland mandates Passivhaus equivalent legislation
A seismic change in building standards is underway in Scotland.

All new build homes in Scotland will soon have to meet greater levels of energy efficiency after the Scottish Government agreed to progress legislation proposed by Scottish Labour MSP Alex Rowley.

In December 2022 Scottish government ministers announced plans to make all new build housing meet a Scottish equivalent to the Passivhaus standard within the next two years. Work to develop the standard will commence early in 2023, seeking the laying of amending regulations in mid-December 2024.

This is HUGE and a potentially game-changing move for building performance, comfort, energy bills, and climate action in Scotland! Its ripples will extend far beyond Scotland and is already attracting global attention.

Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation

Peter_in_Hungary — Fri, 13 Jan 2023 16:58:06 +0000

Sorry to be sceptical but
Only if there is good over-sight, inspection and enforcement.

After all the current building standards leave new houses with inadequate insulation, gaps in insulation and massive cold bridges, not because of poor regulations but rather poor enforcement of the regs that are in place and with little to no enforcement of post build issues. e.g. what chance is there of issues shown up by a thermal imaging photo being resolved without a lengthy (legal) process.

But sounds good on paper !

Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation

WillInAberdeen — Fri, 13 Jan 2023 17:07:39 +0000

It's slightly political - an opposition MSP had pushed through a private member's bill to mandate PH standards immediately. The only way the Scottish government could head him off, was to adopt it as an official government policy, so allowing them to delay the bill by two years. But good news nonetheless!

Meanwhile, the previous 2022 update to Scottish Building Standards energy efficiency is delayed until 2023, but will already introduce "nearly zero energy buildings" - IE heating energy to be balanced by onsite renewables. The new U values are 0.15/0.12/0.09 for walls/floors/roofs which is already not far off PH. Is also on track to ban gas/oil boilers in new houses from 2024.

Ironically, electricity in Scotland is coming closer to zero carbon with all the new windfarms, so the need to save energy is disappearing during the lifetime of the new buildings. It would be better for the new standards to focus on embodied carbon (eg restrict usage of cement steel and glass, and force reuse of existing buildings instead of replacement). Unfortunately the PH standards do not address embodied carbon yet but who knows maybe that will change.

Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation

Mike1 — Fri, 13 Jan 2023 18:26:40 +0000

Posted By: GreenPaddya Scottish equivalent to the Passivhaus standard

What are they going to do - design their own ScottishHaus Planning Package? Or just extract bits of PHPP so that the headline elements look vaguely similar on paper? Why not just mandate the use of PHPP, since that's scientifically proven, even if with a home-grown inspectorate.

Posted By: Peter_in_HungaryOnly if there is good over-sight, inspection and enforcement.

That's certainly vital. The other key requirement is widespread education for managers and operatives, so that they understand and are able to implement the big change in standards that Passivhaus details require.

Posted By: WillInAberdeenUnfortunately the PH standards do not address embodied carbon yet but who knows maybe that will change.

There has been some movement in that direction (https://passivhaustrust.org.uk/competitions_and_campaigns/passivhaus-embodied-carbon/), so you never know.

Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation

Jonti — Fri, 13 Jan 2023 19:55:06 +0000

Put bluntly, this won't work in the real world.

Firstly, the Scottish Government is incapable of enforcing their present building standards so why do they think they will be able to enforce stricter ones?

Secondly, where are the people who are going to build these standards going to appear from? The vast majority, and I mean the vast majority of trades people have no idea what PH is and by that I mean even the basics.

I have been involved with quite a few builds of PH standard. They have all been individual clients/self builders and all worked only due to the client keeping a very close and regular eye on the build.

This is simply going to fail which is a shame as it is what we should be aiming for.

Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation

bot de paille — Fri, 13 Jan 2023 21:11:50 +0000

Posted By: WillInAberdeenIt's slightly political - an opposition MSP had pushed through a private member's bill to mandate PH standards immediately. The only way the Scottish government could head him off, was to adopt it as an official government policy, so allowing them to delay the bill by two years. But good news nonetheless!

Meanwhile, the previous 2022 update to Scottish Building Standards energy efficiency is delayed until 2023, but will already introduce "nearly zero energy buildings" - IE heating energy to be balanced by onsite renewables. The new U values are 0.15/0.12/0.09 for walls/floors/roofs which is already not far off PH. Is also on track to ban gas/oil boilers in new houses from 2024.

Ironically, electricity in Scotland is coming closer to zero carbon with all the new windfarms, so the need to save energy is disappearing during the lifetime of the new buildings. It would be better for the new standards to focus on embodied carbon (eg restrict usage of cement steel and glass, and force reuse of existing buildings instead of replacement). Unfortunately the PH standards do not address embodied carbon yet but who knows maybe that will change.

The need to save energy is disappearing???
Did Scotland become a land of millionaires recently?

Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation

Peter_in_Hungary — Fri, 13 Jan 2023 22:06:23 +0000

Posted By: bot de pailleDid Scotland become a land of millionaires recently?

Not that I know about
However
It is cheaper to install and run a wind farm than a gas fired power station so what is needed is more wind farms and to de-couple the price of energy from gas and to allow each form of energy production stand on its own.

With older houses already EWI doesn't give a ROI that makes sense for the typical owner occupier, if the cost of electricity falls in line with the cost of wind energy production (and the advances in heat pump tech.) retro fitting insulation will make less sense. For new build when, I ask, does it no longer make sense to spend lots making a house very energy efficient when the cost of green energy won't ever justify the additional expense and extra embodied carbon?

I can see the time when PH standard houses no longer make sense in either running costs or environmental costs, but until we get there something close to PH standard that is enforced makes sense. And it is enforcement that is key.

Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation

bot de paille — Fri, 13 Jan 2023 22:26:03 +0000

Posted By: Peter_in_Hungary
Posted By: bot de pailleDid Scotland become a land of millionaires recently?

Not that I know about
However
It is cheaper to install and run a wind farm than a gas fired power station so what is needed is more wind farms and to de-couple the price of energy from gas and to allow each form of energy production stand on its own.

With older houses already EWI doesn't give a ROI that makes sense for the typical owner occupier, if the cost of electricity falls in line with the cost of wind energy production (and the advances in heat pump tech.) retro fitting insulation will make less sense. For new build when, I ask, does it no longer make sense to spend lots making a house very energy efficient when the cost of green energy won't ever justify the additional expense and extra embodied carbon?

I can see the time when PH standard houses no longer make sense in either running costs or environmental costs, but until we get there something close to PH standard that is enforced makes sense. And it is enforcement that is key.

That doesnt change the fact that energy costs money. Heating a property costs money regardless of the source. It makes sense to reduce energy use, purely on a cost of living basis/fuel poverty.

Wind farms and renewables require backup power systems.

Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation

fostertom — Sat, 14 Jan 2023 08:39:39 +0000

Don't forget, Passivhaus is as much about healthy internal environment, and comfort and convenience, as energy use.
Also, lately, about generating as much or more than it uses.
Then, agreed, there's embodied carbon - but that's set to fall everywhere regardless, as all products are manufactured using renewable rather than carbon-burning energy.
And Circular Economy - re-using previously used products/materials/building shells, with major reduction in virgin-resource extraction - but again that would result from society-wide changes i.e. a total-capture/upcycling/redistributing industry.
And finally on the to-do list, attention to all the other toxic/pollutants in the biosphere, in addition to just one of them (GHGs).
Actually, one more - cleaning all plastic fragments out of the biosphere.

Every Passivhaus, or future-standard building, call it what you will, could be designed as a nett-beneficial machine to tackle all of these, as well as a 'machine for living in'.

Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation

bhommels — Sat, 14 Jan 2023 12:40:23 +0000

Posted By: bot de paille
The need to save energy is disappearing???

I think WiA reasoned from a CO2 only perspective, not cost necessarily. For robustness against future price, energy or CO2-related shocks however I think it is better to invest in energy efficient buildings instead of 'pushing renewables through a sieve' and hope that will be OK in the long term.

Did Scotland become a land of millionaires recently?

Whatever the standard is going to be exactly, likely building a ScotPH will be more expensive. Keep in mind though that the total cost of ownership over the building lifetime (and often the remaining life expectancy of the occupant) is very likely to be lower. That goes for both CO2 and Â£.

Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation

bot de paille — Sat, 14 Jan 2023 13:32:54 +0000

Fuel poverty is very much a thing for many people, especially vulnerable older ppl, many who die every ywar from hyperthermia. Tbey are so scared of a horrific fuel bill they wont turn on the heating. The notion that low CO2 means ppl dont bave to worry about energy use any more is strange.

Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation

revor — Sat, 14 Jan 2023 13:37:52 +0000

Posted By: fostertomAlso, lately, about generating as much or more than it uses.

You do not need to be a passive house. Our self build conversion of 18th C farmhouse produces more than it uses. And that is paying for LPG in bottles.

Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation

bot de paille — Sat, 14 Jan 2023 14:38:35 +0000

Posted By: revor
Posted By: fostertomAlso, lately, about generating as much or more than it uses.

You do not need to be a passive house. Our self build conversion of 18th C farmhouse produces more than it uses. And that is paying for LPG in bottles.

Thats great! How are you achieving net positive and can you give an idea of production over consumption. What steps did you take if not PH levels? Thanks

Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation

borpin — Sat, 14 Jan 2023 15:49:41 +0000

I'll agree with many of these comments

Impossible to police and enforce. I doubt more than 10% of new builds by commercial companies actually meet the current standards (air leakage in particular and insulation correctly installed).

Why are we still using bricks and block as the external finish? Bloody planners! Yes cut embodied energy.

Need to move to Triple glazing.

MVHR in all builds?

I have a few European Builders I follow on Instagram - the methods they use are so far ahead of our methods. Our building industry are stuck in the dark ages.

Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation

Jonti — Sat, 14 Jan 2023 18:32:58 +0000

borpin,

a big reason for still using bricks and blocks is it is difficult to get a mortgage on many other methods. As for meeting building regs with the exception of the house that is built for the purpose of testing NONE of the houses built by any of the big companies meet current regs. The standard/quality of new build in the UK is consideravly worse than it was 30 years ago.

bot de paille

PH won't help those in fuel poverty as if you can't pay for energy at the moment then you sure cannot afford to own or rent a PH standards house.

If we were building to the current standards we would be using considerably less energy than we do.

Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation

bot de paille — Sat, 14 Jan 2023 20:47:32 +0000

Um, why cannot someone own a PH property, or rent one and be low income???

Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation

djh — Sat, 14 Jan 2023 22:24:11 +0000

Posted By: JontiI have been involved with quite a few builds of PH standard. They have all been individual clients/self builders and all worked only due to the client keeping a very close and regular eye on the build.

...

PH won't help those in fuel poverty as if you can't pay for energy at the moment then you sure cannot afford to own or rent a PH standards house.

Hmm, I agree that close supervision is necessary as well as a detailed design and good enforcement. But I believe the majority of PH projects in England (or maybe UK?) are built and owned by social housing organizations rather than individuals. Which kind of contradicts both of the points.

I believe the social housing has been built successfully by providing training on-site to all trades as well as staffing with some knowledgeable leaders who have previously undertaken more extensive training. And obviously building several houses on a site gives time for some of the training to sink in.

It will be good if this initiative works, but coming up with a separate Scottish standard sounds like a fudge, and unless they come up with a new enforcement method equivalent to PH certification that's unlikely to work either.

Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation

bot de paille — Sat, 14 Jan 2023 22:57:17 +0000

All social house should and could be PH.

700 billion was magically found to keep the economy running during covid lock downs in the UK.
10 billion on vax passport app alone.

US spent 15 trillion during covid lock downs.

Funny how they find the money for what they want when they want...

Its a choice.

Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation

fostertom — Sun, 15 Jan 2023 06:37:40 +0000

Posted By: bot de pailleFunny how they find the money for what they want when they want...

Quite. Because they don't have to 'find' the money, or even borrow it by selling repayable 'gilts' bonds - countries with sovereign currencies (e.g. EU but not individual member states) can just write it into existence.

The only problem is devising timing, targeting and regs to prevent that new money, yes, causing inflation - or being syphoned off by corporations and 'finance' to bid-up stock markets, paper 'wealth', never re-cashable. Forever the belief has been that 'printing' money self-evidently creates inflation, so it's been a prime no-no (though regularly broken). But that's not the case - like any of the other fiscal measures available, may or may not cause inflation, deflation or what else - all depends with what ideology-free wisdom they're targeted and regulated.

It's still political suicide for any politician of whatever colour to mention the above - but it's a reality-dam that's straining to break.

Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation

Jonti — Sun, 15 Jan 2023 09:42:33 +0000

djh,

I didn't say individuals but individual clients which social housing organisations are. Not only that but you describe how said organisations closely control the build so rather than a contradiction I would suggest it is a confirmation of my points.

I agree that from a rental POV social housing is a positive thing but on the home owner side it can be problematic as you don't own the whole property.

Posted By: bot de pailleUm, why cannot someone own a PH property, or rent one and be low income???

Go to a mortgage broker and tell them you have a household income of 20k have no deposit then ask what size of mortgage you can have. Then go and find a PH house on the market that you can buy with said mortgage. Ditto with rent.

Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation

revor — Sun, 15 Jan 2023 10:47:24 +0000

Posted By: bot de pailleThats great! How are you achieving net positive and can you give an idea of production over consumption. What steps did you take if not PH levels? Thanks

Last year was 1st full year of solar pv. Overall efficiency was 65% i.e 65% usage came from solar 35% from grid. we Spent Â£433 on grid electricity and Â£804 worth used was from solar. In addition we were credited with Â£705 that we exported to the grid. We spent Â£250 on gas (4x46Kg bottles)for heating only. Up to Mid May we were only getting 5.5p for export but from then on we switched to variable tariff that follows wholesale prices. Hopefully this year we will gain more from export but who knows. The gas this year has gone up 40% so that will make a dent in the sums. Must add there are only 2 of us so a family would probably use a lot more than us.

I aimed for high level of insulation Walls 150mm cavity 100mm ins 0.17U roof 0.11 combination of 170 mm rockwool between trusses overlaid with 100m pur, floor 150 mm pur 0.13 U,
Built around the old building with block extension so the only the front was exposed. This wall was externally insulated 100m battened out air gap and cedar clad. Back and side of house highly glazed S and W elevation to gain solar gain. One wall is behind a conservatory entrance way so gets heated up and act as thermal mass for the building. These areas are then isolated from the rest of house with DG sliding and bifold doors in evening to trap the warm air in the building. Have solar thermal, solar PV 6kw plus 10 kw battery MVHR Gledhill thermal store UFH LED lights and low energy appliances. I did most of the work apart from the blockwork slating and plastering. Thus I was able to ensure the insulation went in with no gaps no holes in walls (all services under ground into a plant room, only holes gas pipe flue and MVHR grills) no thermal bridging and attention to sealing for leakage using tapes and sealant.
The solar gain has impressed us it does keep the energy usage down our only downfall was we chose upvc windows whilst the side hung opening ones have been fine the top hung ones leak in strong wind. Think they have distorted in the heat of the sun. (In winter I tape these up with white pvc electrician's tape). Bottom line is attention to detail throughout but I did slip up on the windows. Had we been allowed to knock down the old house we would have built smaller than the 320 sqM we ended up with, been a better job and more efficient a building. Whilst the Scottish imitative is applauded I do not think that the building industry in general can deliver.

Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation

WillInAberdeen — Sun, 15 Jan 2023 13:34:36 +0000

Excellent project! Well done!

Ironically this kind of project is legal under the 2022 Scottish building standards, because it is a nZEB where the residual energy consumption is balanced out by the renewable generation capacity. Unfortunately it will be banned under the 2024 legislation, because the PH standard does not allow additional renewables to be used to compensate for residual heat losses.

(Edit: this may have been an 'unintended consequence' of the opposition private member's bill mandating the PH standard. I can't see anything in their supporting documents that they had realised they would be banning houses like Revor's. Hopefully the Scottish government, having delayed the bill for the maximum 2 years allowed, will take time to rethink this consequence of moving over to the PH standard instead of using the traditional TER/DER based building standards.)

There is an argument whether the additional renewables have to go onto the same plot as the house (as per the 2022 standards), or could they better be sited somewhere nearby if there's a sunnier or windier plot available there. Or indeed could they be sited 100miles off the coast where it's always windy.

The Scottish building industry has capacity to add about 0.8% extra homes to the housing stock each year. If we assume (hopefully) they will still build that quickly to PH standards, then by 2050 they will have added 20% of PHs onto the existing housing stock.

The other ~80% of the 2050 housing stock have already been built. So the building standards for refurbishment projects are perhaps even more in need of attention than the standards for new builds.

Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation

djh — Sun, 15 Jan 2023 18:01:30 +0000

Posted By: JontiI didn't say individuals but individual clients which social housing organisations are.

Ah sorry. I was misled by your "/self builders", which rather changes the emphasis. But people on low incomes still rent the PH social buildings.

Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation

Jonti — Sun, 15 Jan 2023 22:46:26 +0000

Posted By: djh
Posted By: JontiI didn't say individuals but individual clients which social housing organisations are.
Ah sorry. I was misled by your "/self builders", which rather changes the emphasis. But people on low incomes still rent the PH social buildings.

Always a problem with the internet clearly describing what you mean and/or interpreting what is read.

But the 'social' aspect means the rent low income people have to pay is below market levels meaning they probably couldn't afford them without the state subsidising it. Ergo, they can't afford PH prices. But my main point about this new standard failing still stands. There is no incentive for the construction companies to meet building regs.

Laws and regulations are only as good as the enforcement.

Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation

borpin — Mon, 16 Jan 2023 08:31:18 +0000

For immediate Social Housing needs, I'd like to see factory built 'cabin' accommodation.

If well designed and built to high standards of insulation & airtightness, there is no reason why they would not be almost zero cost to heat when occupied. At a minimum they would be very low cost. Flat sedum roofs with PV, triple glazed windows, MVHR etc. Build on screwpiles and the longest job (other than planning and NIMBYs) will be getting the infrastructure (Drains & Utilities) in.

Not perfect, but better than B&B (or nowhere) and some folk might even prefer them to larger houses.

Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation

Jonti — Mon, 16 Jan 2023 09:10:12 +0000

Posted By: borpinFor immediate Social Housing needs, I'd like to see factory built 'cabin' accommodation.

If well designed and built to high standards of insulation & airtightness, there is no reason why they would not be almost zero cost to heat when occupied. At a minimum they would be very low cost. Flat sedum roofs with PV, triple glazed windows, MVHR etc. Build on screwpiles and the longest job (other than planning and NIMBYs) will be getting the infrastructure (Drains & Utilities) in.

Not perfect, but better than B&B (or nowhere) and some folk might even prefer them to larger houses.

Couldn't agree more. Indeed, with a bit of thought there is no reason why a modular approach to larger houses couldn't be done in this way. Cheaper, much quicker and better quality. The problem is because they would not be 'standard' building method it would be very difficult to get finance.

Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation

fostertom — Mon, 16 Jan 2023 09:31:08 +0000

This is emphasising the power-with-ignorance of the heavy hand of the mortgage industry. Presently, insisting on 'brick construction even tho it's just a wallpaper skin around a structural cardboard box; in the past for instance insisting routinely on toxic woodwork treatment and fabric-disastrous injection-plus-strong-render rising damp treatment, even when unnecessary.

Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation

Peter_in_Hungary — Mon, 16 Jan 2023 09:37:04 +0000

Posted By: borpinFor immediate Social Housing needs, I'd like to see factory built 'cabin' accommodation.

If well designed and built to high standards of insulation & airtightness, there is no reason why they would not be almost zero cost to heat when occupied. At a minimum they would be very low cost. Flat sedum roofs with PV, triple glazed windows, MVHR etc. Build on screwpiles and the longest job (other than planning and NIMBYs) will be getting the infrastructure (Drains & Utilities) in.

An updated return to the pre-fabs of the post war era, also implemented to solve a housing crisis.

Posted By: JontiThe problem is because they would not be 'standard' building method it would be very difficult to get finance.

Once enough of them are around they become 'standard' so I see the early stages having a financing problem and this would be resolvable if enough pressure (or help) is put on the financial institutions. Hopefully the 'cabin' houses' would be built to last as a permanent solution rather than the post war pre-fabs that were only ever supposed to be temporary even if many were in use well past their sell by date.

One market problem I can see is that if the 'cabin houses' work and reduce or solve the housing shortage this could have a big effect on the housing market which is driven by supply and demand so many may find themselves in negative equity with all the problems that gives.

I don't see why a couple of years should not see the roll out of such accommodation, starting with brown field sites - on the other hand planning, government inertia and vested interest would probably see this years down the line.

Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation

Artiglio — Mon, 16 Jan 2023 09:54:59 +0000

Thereâ€™s next to no chance of there being a return to the use of modern basic prefabs for social housing, itâ€™d be presented as stigmatising those that have access to social housing, ( going against the drive to make developers have affordable provision within new developments innthe name of social inclusion) then youâ€™ll have the backlash from owner occupiers who will feel that their taxes are being used to make the cost of living artificially low for low income households and so create a moral hazard where some decide it makes no sense trying to provide for yourself and family.
The numbers trotted out by councils in respect of those registered on the â€œsocial housing listsâ€ are misleading as they represent the numbers on a list not those actually homeless ( many are those wanting to get out of the private sector and into the social) then there are those especially problematic tenants that no one really wants unless paid comsiderable amounts to manage them.
It would be far better to look solely at the numbers placed in emergency accomodation (and within that break it down to give reasons as to why they were made homeless) and seek to satisfy that demand as a matter of urgency rather than the wider list numbers. After that you have the problem of those who are offered housing outside the area they have lived in , london boroughs being the prime examples of those buying up housing in cheaper areas or doing deals with private landlords further afield to reduce their housing lists.

Passivhaus Equivalent Legislation

WillInAberdeen — Mon, 16 Jan 2023 10:20:00 +0000

I notice that all of the volume housebuilders around here have moved entirely over to prefab kit construction. The walls and floors are assembled in a number of local factories, including insulation and (I think) plasterboard. They come to site stacked on a lorry and are assembled in a couple of days with a crane. Meanwhile the roof is built at ground level on an adjacent plot, then craned in one piece onto of its house when ready. So the whole structure goes up and is weather tight in a week or so. Dry trades go inside to finish off, at the same time as render and minimal brick details are being put on the outside and turfs are being unrolled on the garden.

I assume the volume housebuilders like the cashflow advantages of super-quick construction, and the resilience against weather delays.

I don't know if this method has better or worse airtightness, I could imagine the various pieces not fitting exactly together. But probably better quality control in the factory than on site.

The longest steps (by far) are planning permission, and then groundworks including roads and services.

There are presumably no problems with buyers finding mortgages.

Eg
https://scotframe.co.uk/timber-frame-homes/benefits-for-builders-and-developers/