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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
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    • CommentAuthorRobinB
    • CommentTimeAug 1st 2014 edited
     
    Objecting to planning application for a building that would shade our solar panels - any precedent?

    Has anyone come across this before?

    I don't want to stop them from building - I just don't want a building so tall and close to our southern boundary that will cut out all the sun from our largely south facing windows, garden and solar panels.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeAug 1st 2014
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_light might give some term worth searching for.
    • CommentAuthorsnyggapa
    • CommentTimeAug 1st 2014 edited
     
    One thing that I am not sure of - it may or may not be a "planning" matter that the planners take into consideration - it may be worth trying to speak with a planner to ask - however if you have a right to light you may be forced to take it up directly with the owner (a civil matter, so injunction or otherwise) to actually stop them building it. Just because people are granted planning permission it does not override any other rights that you may have - but it's not the planners who police this.

    In these cases, the best method is always direct negotiation - however experience shows that this is not always possible..

    I guess you don't have the "right to light" for your panels or garden, but you may have it for any windows..

    http://planning-applications.co.uk/righttolight.htm may help

    -Steve
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeAug 1st 2014 edited
     
    It hasn't been tested in court but the Law Commission, in it's review of right to light, reckons there's no right to light for solar panels under current law.

    See paragraph 2.13
    http://lawcommission.justice.gov.uk/docs/cp210_rights_to_light_version-web.pdf

    Also rights to light are acquired over 20 years, so even if there were rights to light for solar panels they would need to have been there for 20 years.

    You're out of luck unfortunately I think.

    The laws need to be changed in some way to deal with this problem.
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeAug 1st 2014
     
    • CommentAuthorsnyggapa
    • CommentTimeAug 1st 2014
     
    you may not be out of luck if the solution to getting the right to light for your windows coincidentally solves it for your panels though..
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeAug 1st 2014
     
    I recal reading about owners of a wind farm objecting to another one being built upwind. Not got any details I'm afraid.

    I am also aware of a house that was designed with the vast majority of it's windows facing in one direction (other directions had tall trees/hedges/buildings). When a new development was proposed that would affect their windows the planners were able to give the impact on that house more weight than other houses at the same distance that had windows on all four sides. Decision was called in by the SS. Was due last week but delayed again. Been waiting 8 months so far.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeAug 1st 2014
     
    I gather it's very hard to prove your right to light has been infringed (assuming you have acquired one in the first place). As I understand it you would need to get some modelling done to show how light levels in the rooms will be affected.

    A right to light trumps planning permission so it is possible to go to court after the building has been built - but from the little I've read it seems courts prefer to award damages rather than enforce demolition in such cases. However it's not unheard of for demolition to be ordered because of a right to light even thought the

    You might try researching the right to light and then writing to the owner of the other property just to put the wind up them. Perhaps advise them that it trumps planning permission and that perhaps they should get som modelling done. They might figure it's easier to move the building or limit the height.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 1st 2014
     
    I have seen a new build grossly throw shade over solar panels in my town, the revenue has decreased but not as much as predicted!

    In the USA they would sue over this for loss of income, but we are too British, I would like to see a test case as once in case law a precedent is set to deter others.

    This problem will continue to become more common.
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeAug 1st 2014
     
    Posted By: snyggapayou may not be out of luck if the solution to getting the right to light for your windows coincidentally solves it for your panels though..

    yeap true, this is your only shot at it.
  1.  
    I think it would be *very* useful to know how much the light incidence on your panels will be reduced, and how much the power will be reduced.

    Would it be a material amount?

    Ferdinand
  2.  
    Posted By: ferdinand2000I think it would be *very* useful to know how much the light incidence on your panels will be reduced, and how much the power will be reduced.

    In case RobinB hasn't already noticed the facility PVGIS
    http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvgis/apps4/pvest.php
    allows a custom "horizon" file to be used for the calculations.

    Maybe useful to do a before & after comparison?
    • CommentAuthorRobinB
    • CommentTimeAug 1st 2014
     
    Thanks for the comments everyone. All rather gloomy. Skywright I really hope there is no "after" comparison and I don't particularly want to be "a test case" but we'll see what happens. I think the building proposed is too tall for the area too (it's a little downhill from us) so hopefully that will sway the planners too.
    I'm thinking to argue "loss of amenity" but I'm not really sure the technical definition of amenity if there is one.
    • CommentAuthorbella
    • CommentTimeAug 1st 2014
     
    I asked a planning officer this very question 4 years back. The answer was "amenity is an assessment of the pleasantness of your site - views, convenience, the look of your building to others and of local buildings generally". I am afraid he considered solar panels of any sort on any scale a "potential loss of amenity" - this was in a National Park.
    • CommentAuthorskyewright
    • CommentTimeAug 1st 2014 edited
     
    Posted By: RobinBThanks for the comments everyone. All rather gloomy. Skywright I really hope there is no "after" comparison

    I wasn't sure if "after" was really the appropriate word to use, but I was in a hurry. Sorry. To clarify...

    I didn't intend to suggest it as a tool to use later on, rather as a way of estimating impact in advance, i.e. prepare a horizon file for "now", and one for "as it would be if the new property was built", then compare the PVGIS estimates for the array.

    Does that make more sense now?
    • CommentAuthorRobinB
    • CommentTimeAug 1st 2014
     
    Lots! thanks.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeAug 2nd 2014
     
    Loss of amenity usually has to be bad enough to make it an "unattractive place to live" before it carries much weight. Simply making it a less attractive place to live isn't enough. Needs to be bad enough that virtually nobody would want to live there.

    There is no right to a private view only the loss of a public view is considered material. Find views from public footpaths and roads.

    Regarding Right to Light... I'm pretty sure this is a dead end as you have to show that light levels in a room are dramatically reduced...

    http://www.right-of-light.co.uk/calculation.php

    "The right is to a certain amount of light and not to all of the light that was once enjoyed. Mathematical calculations are used to determine whether or not a development causes an infringement. For speed and accuracy rights to light calculations are undertaken using specialist computer software."

    http://www.msasurvey.com/map/RICS%20Rights%20of%20light%20guidance%20note%202010.pdf
    See page 3

    "In order for a right of light to be acquired, a flow of light through a clearly defined aperture is required. Therefore, the right is not capable of benefiting land in general and cannot exist in favour of open
    garden areas, but a specific glazed area such as a greenhouse can enjoy a right of light. In this
    guidance note the term ‘window’ will be used to refer to all apertures. "

    I wonder if the glass on a solar panel counts as an "aperture"? Would only apply to 20 year old panels.
    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeAug 2nd 2014
     
    Is the new building out of scale for the area?
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2014
     
    Posted By: RobinBtall and close to our southern boundary
    how close and how tall? A new build up the road, originally two storey had to be reduced in height to a one and half storey, as it was taller than adjacent houses.
    • CommentAuthorRobinB
    • CommentTimeAug 4th 2014
     
    I do think it's too tall and out of scale and having read around a bit more that is perhaps the strongest argument.
    thanks!
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeAug 4th 2014
     
    Look up Supplementary Planning Guidance (SPG) for your local authority. There will usually be some guidance like the attached example for Brent Council.
    • CommentAuthorRobinB
    • CommentTimeAug 4th 2014
     
    Thanks Shevek, will look into it.

    Looking at my problems another way - does anyone want to buy a building plot in West Yorkshire to build a "green" home of modest proportions? I'm not the seller but we'd be nice neighbours!
    • CommentAuthorRobinB
    • CommentTimeAug 4th 2014
     
    Just wondering what rent a roof companies like "A Shade Greener" would do. Perhaps they pick their roofs more carefully.
    • CommentAuthordb8000
    • CommentTimeAug 4th 2014
     
    For the OP, I think that objecting in the planning process is likely to be the only way forward. National Guidance is now here: http://planningguidance.planningportal.gov.uk/ - much simplified.

    The "Local Plan" or "Core Strategy" for your local council will contain more detail.

    In respect of Rights to Light, others have already linked to negative legal commentary on the subject. The Law Commission is currently considering reducing the scope of rights to light (consultation closed) and on the subject of solar panels said in the document seeking comments:

    "2.15 It has been suggested that the law should be changed so as to enable easements to protect the light to a solar panel.18 As matters stand, however, where neighbours wish to protect the passage of light to their solar panels they can do so by creating a restrictive covenant (or, after implementation of our recommendations in the Easements Report, a negative land obligation)19 not to build so as to obstruct the passage of that light.
    2.16 So it is already possible to create an interest in land for the protection of a solar panel, although we think this would be unusual. However, if it were possible to protect a solar panel with an easement the position would be different as regards non-consensual creation. Easements can arise by prescription,20 whilst restrictive covenants and, in the future, negative land obligations must be created expressly.
    2.17 We think that this is the correct position for solar panels. If prescription were to operate to create an enforceable right to the passage of light to solar panels then the difficulties that arise from a proliferation of rights to light would be exacerbated. We consider the problems that arise in respect of prescription for rights to light in Chapter 3. Allowing prescription for solar panels would be particularly problematic as it would be difficult for dominant and servient landowners to establish the channels of light that benefit the panel. As a
    consequence, the extent of the right would be uncertain and, potentially, very wide."
    http://lawcommission.justice.gov.uk/docs/cp210_rights_to_light_version-web.pdf

    In short, they are not interested in recommending an extension of the current law to include solar panels.

    It is worth the OP checking the neighbours title register at the Land Registry as occasionally land is subject to covenants restricting development to a certain type or with the consent of neighbours and this may provide another avenue to assist.

    David
    • CommentAuthorJeff B
    • CommentTimeAug 5th 2014
     
    Posted By: tonyI have seen a new build grossly throw shade over solar panels in my town, the revenue has decreased but not as much as predicted!

    In the USA they would sue over this for loss of income, but we are too British, I would like to see a test case as once in case law a precedent is set to deter others.

    This problem will continue to become more common.


    If I was faced with Robin's problem (which I could be in a few years time if my neighbour sells the field adjacent to their house for housing development, as has been mentioned) then I would immediately write to the developers and threaten to sue them if they go ahead as by then I will have built up a considerable amount of historical PV solar data from my system. Forget about right to light and all that! I think £20K or so compensation would be a drop in the ocean against the potential value of the building plots.
    • CommentAuthordb8000
    • CommentTimeAug 5th 2014
     
    Jeff, if the developers were well advised, I suspect they'll just refer you to the reply given in Arkell -v- Pressdram. :bigsmile:
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeAug 5th 2014
     
    :bigsmile::bigsmile::bigsmile:
  3.  
    Unfortunately if you allowed a right of light to solar panels it could quickly become used as a way of blocking adjacent development. Fear someone could build next to you in future? Stick a load of panels on the side of your house low down so that almost any construction at all would shade them.

    My neighbour fitted solar panels to his roof some time AFTER planning permission had been granted for our house but before we had started to build. The upper floors are going up now and it's quite obvious that the panels will be at least partially shaded for some of the day.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2014
     
    Posted By: Simon StillUnfortunately if you allowed a right of light to solar panels

    As indeed is the law in California. So it's all a matter of perspective and relativity. There's no right and wrong view on this.
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeAug 7th 2014 edited
     
    Posted By: Simon StillUnfortunately if you allowed a right of light to solar panels it could quickly become used as a way of blocking adjacent development. Fear someone could build next to you in future? Stick a load of panels on the side of your house low down so that almost any construction at all would shade them.

    Or it could be implemented in a way that only gives right to light for solar panels under certain circumstances, to avoid this sort of thing.
   
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