Tue, 19 Dec 2023 08:58:23 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=685#Comment_685 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=685#Comment_685 Fri, 02 Mar 2007 07:45:33 +0000 Katymac
Is this a practical option - does it provide electricity? How would I use that to heat the nursery?

Would it need filling like a car engine or would it be attached (like an LPG tank)?

Any ideas?]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=688#Comment_688 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=688#Comment_688 Fri, 02 Mar 2007 08:06:11 +0000 nigel
The problem is heating oil is about 33p per litre and biodiesel over 50p.
This is because it can be used for car transport where it only competes because there is 20p lower duty on it than diesel.

I think biodiesel is best used for transport and heating is best from biomass.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=689#Comment_689 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=689#Comment_689 Fri, 02 Mar 2007 08:16:04 +0000 tony http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=690#Comment_690 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=690#Comment_690 Fri, 02 Mar 2007 08:20:13 +0000 Katymac
Couldn't I run my GSHP on the biodiesel? then use that to heat the nursery (UFH)?

50p a litre seems expensive - but I dont know how much I'd need to spend to run the GSHP]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=698#Comment_698 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=698#Comment_698 Fri, 02 Mar 2007 11:11:11 +0000 Tuna
You could run a diesel generator on biodiesel, use the electricity for lights and use the waste heat (any engine has a lot of waste heat) to heat the building. However, diesel generators are fairly big and expensive (and not always so quiet), and I've not seen one that's designed to provide domestic heat as well. That said, I'm sure something like that should exist as it's an obvious use of the heat generated.

Converting anything to electricity is always inefficient. Electricity to heat is efficient, but biodiesel -> electricity -> heat overall is pretty poor, especially when you consider that biodiesel can be made to produce heat directly. Your best bet is to use electricity only for the necessary things - almost all successful green power generation schemes (wind turbines, solar PV etc.) start with reducing electricity consumption as much as possible before using generators.

Do a search on 'CHP diesel' (Combined heat and power, which is what you want, and diesel generators will run on biodiesel without modification, though you might want to check with the manufacturer to ensure they are covered). You might find something interesting.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=699#Comment_699 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=699#Comment_699 Fri, 02 Mar 2007 11:16:11 +0000 skier-hughes http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=704#Comment_704 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=704#Comment_704 Fri, 02 Mar 2007 13:04:15 +0000 fostertom http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=708#Comment_708 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=708#Comment_708 Fri, 02 Mar 2007 13:53:03 +0000 nigel
If you then added the full duty it woud not be economic as a road fuel the 20p discount on duty offsets this.

Clearly DIY biodiesel is the way to go if you can get hold of the used chip fat.
But also beware a lot of chip fat is now palm oil based and in buying and using that you are encouraging the destruction of vast swathes of asian rainforest.

Make sure its rape based otherwise it very very ungreen.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=712#Comment_712 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=712#Comment_712 Fri, 02 Mar 2007 14:34:45 +0000 Jane Smith http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=714#Comment_714 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=714#Comment_714 Fri, 02 Mar 2007 14:44:32 +0000 nigel
The biggest problem is getting hold of the used chip fat (rape based).]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=729#Comment_729 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=729#Comment_729 Fri, 02 Mar 2007 17:52:25 +0000 Tuna
To be honest, biodiesel powered CHPs are probably not an option either - unless you have the time and inclination to tinker with engines, they are not practical. You can't just press a button and reliably have energy, unless you've spent a serious amount of money on a ultra-reliable 24/7/365 set-up which I'm sure would be out of most people's budget.

The use of palm oil is an issue, but unless you're running a commercial operation, most bio-diesel producers don't pay for their oil - they just take away oil for free. It's not encouraging chip shop owners to use palm over rape seed - that is entirely their ethical choice.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=731#Comment_731 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=731#Comment_731 Fri, 02 Mar 2007 18:54:32 +0000 nigel
If everyone refused to take away palm oil then chip shops would find it a less attractive option than rape oil.

Its not really an excuse to blame it on them you have a choice too.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=736#Comment_736 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=736#Comment_736 Fri, 02 Mar 2007 22:59:12 +0000 Nick Parsons http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=738#Comment_738 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=738#Comment_738 Fri, 02 Mar 2007 23:28:35 +0000 Tuna
As I said, domestic production of biodiesel really has no effect. Most suppliers of oil (whether or not it's palm oil) will take the waste oil away when they deliver fresh oil to the restaurant, so it really doesn't affect most restaurants whether or not individuals take their oil from them - it will go regardless of what type it is.

To discourage restaurants from using palm oil, you would have to prevent palm oil suppliers from taking it away as waste - which obviously they're not going to willingly stop doing.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=739#Comment_739 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=739#Comment_739 Fri, 02 Mar 2007 23:32:38 +0000 fostertom http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=740#Comment_740 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=740#Comment_740 Fri, 02 Mar 2007 23:45:06 +0000 Nick Parsons http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=769#Comment_769 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=769#Comment_769 Sun, 04 Mar 2007 19:44:44 +0000 Nick Parsons http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=855#Comment_855 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=71&Focus=855#Comment_855 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 11:55:24 +0000 fostertom