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Products: Recommended PEX plumbing system

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    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeJun 29th 2014
     
    I've finally caved in and decided to use plastic pipes, at least from manifold to fittings.

    What system do you recommend? I like the colour coding of AquaPEX.
  2.  
    Hep2o is what I have been recommended and have been purchasing bit by bit
    •  
      CommentAuthorJustin
    • CommentTimeJun 29th 2014
     
    I've never had any problems with JGspeedfit.

    Only issue I ever had with plastic was when jointing plastic to existing copper. Manufacturers say you can do it, but I won't do it nowadays, I nowadays always use Cu compression to the plastic (obviously with insert ring) to make a conversion.

    Time I just used plastic push fit to Cu in the normal way, I had my only ever leak few years in. (Cu pipe was all carefully polished and shiny and clean when originally made, - often Cu has a ridged surface). - But the anerobic conditions (I guess) beneath the O ring produced after a few years a rough ring of green oxide on the Cu pipe which forced the O ring off the CU and caused a leak (albeit a small one.)
  4.  
    This is quite a timely thread for me, as I'm trying to sort our UFH supplier and have become convinced of the wisdom of full-on manifold plumbing.

    I'm having a major issue trying to find anyone to fit the bloody thing though - is a manifold system not widely used? Trying to spec all the bits myself, but there's a lot. Am I correct in thinking there should be no joins in the pipe apart from at the manifold and the tap (or whatever) at the other end, which should be a push-fit type thing?

    Our house will be stuffed with manifolds.
  5.  
    yes, you wouldn't want joins underground
  6.  
    I like JGspeedfit , made in Hounslow and Maidenhead , make sure you use the collet clips and superseal inserts.
    • CommentAuthorGotanewlife
    • CommentTimeJun 30th 2014 edited
     
    Posted By: divorcingjackAm I correct in thinking there should be no joins in the pipe apart from at the manifold and the tap
    Ditto - Yes.
  8.  
    Thanks for the clarification victorianeco and gotanewlife, we will be running all our pipes in a service void through the walls (I think) - would we be better through the metal web floor joists or does it not really matter?

    Is this type of pushfit/manifold system something that anyone would consider doing themselves? Could we just run the pipes and get a pro to connect it all up? I'm guessing a lot of the labour is in fiddling around with getting the pipes through the walls/floor.
  9.  
    Over here the plumbers don't like push fit or compression fittings. They all use crimp fittings. They reckon that the others weep after a time. DIY plumbers often put all the pipework in then hire a crimping tool for one day and crimp up all the joints in one go.
    IMO it does not matter much where you run the pipes, I like to have them hidden but accessible. Just make sure they are not sitting on sharp edges
  10.  
    I have used the crimp stuff and borrowed a crimping tool before but I now only use compression - afterall all the fittings are easily accessible with manifolds. I did all my house (over 12 manifolds) DIY and it was the first time I had used manifolds or multilayer pipe - the only possible 'fatal' error is to cut the pipe too short. It was relatively straight forward so goferit! Also find a local (or large on-line) supplier of fittings/manifolds and only use them, over here at least there are lots of incompatible combinations.
  11.  
    Gotanewlife - stupid question .... compression is the same as push-fit speedfit? Right?

    Are there any other systems that I should look at? Although there seems to be a lot of speedfit stuff popping up on ebay and gumtree, do you think it would be feasible to pick up bits from there?

    Feeling slightly terrified to be honest now :)
  12.  
    I will be DIY'ing all of mine

    hep20 has some good info on their site to look at, very hard to get wrong
  13.  
    Another vote for speedfit because of the locking screw just remember to do up the screw otherwise the joint can come undone over time. Also avoid mixing speedfit and hep20 pipe as there supposed to be the same size but in my experience there not.
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeJul 1st 2014
     
    PEX pipe is all standardised right? i.e. you can use any PEX pipe with any of these systems.
  15.  
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: Shevek</cite>PEX pipe is all standardised right? i.e. you can use any PEX pipe with any of these systems.</blockquote>

    Dont think that is the case. Certainly in my experience speedfit fittings fit better on speedfit pipe rather than hep20. Only reason I know because I ran out of speedfit pipe and could only get hep20. If you have a rodent problem you may wish to protect the Pex pipe in vulnerable areas. We use the blue alkathene pipe on the farm in vulnerable spots.
  16.  
    Posted By: renewablejohn
    Posted By: ShevekPEX pipe is all standardised right? i.e. you can use any PEX pipe with any of these systems.


    Dont think that is the case. Certainly in my experience speedfit fittings fit better on speedfit pipe rather than hep20. Only reason I know because I ran out of speedfit pipe and could only get hep20. If you have a rodent problem you may wish to protect the Pex pipe in vulnerable areas. We use the blue alkathene pipe on the farm in vulnerable spots.


    That's interesting. I'd been thinking about using JG Speedfit fittings with Wundatrade pipe (about half the price) http://www.wundatrade.co.uk/shop/18-pex-barrier-pipe but the saving probably isn't enough to justify the risk if what you're saying is true
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeJul 1st 2014
     
    Dunno but my very limited experience seemed to indicate that the inserts need to match both the pipe and the fitting meaning that, in effect, the pipe has to match the fitting.
  18.  
    Posted By: divorcingjackGotanewlife - stupid question .... compression is the same as push-fit speedfit? Right?
    As far as I'm concerned 1/There are no stupid questions 2/Push fit is not compression in that compression fittings are brass and the action of tightening the nut forces an olive (or sometimes a ring with a washer) hard onto the pipe - push fits use rubber seals and backward facing spiky things. I believe the evidence is that push fit are good for 50 years but I like compression and they take up a lot less space, you can't forget an insert or get a rubber seal mis-aligned. Finally with multi layer pipe and compression fittings I can seriously bodge something and get away with it - it is a very strong and durable method. Oh and I hate that springy pushfit pipe - with multi-layer pipe I can use a pipe neder and really achieve some tight corners again getting me out of trouble caused by my lack of planning.
    • CommentAuthordaserra
    • CommentTimeJul 1st 2014
     
    I've been using multi layer pex (pex-al-pex) with crimp fittings for 10 years now and I've not had a single leak. It maintains curves unlike standard pex with it's shape memory and also forms an oxygen barrier unlike standard pex.
    I cannot recommend it enough. The only downsides are the fittings tend to be quite narrow compared to the pipe and they are expensive.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJul 2nd 2014
     
    Posted By: daserraI've been using multi layer pex (pex-al-pex) with crimp fittings for 10 years now and I've not had a single leak.

    Question for anybody who knows the answer ... which UK WRAS-approved products does this describe?

    (when I say WRAS I may mean KIWA as well, but I don't know enough to know :shamed: )
    • CommentAuthordaserra
    • CommentTimeJul 3rd 2014
     
    I can't answer that question but I do know that there are 2 multipex systems here. Mine is the "TH" system but the other is very similar but I forget the name. The main way of telling them apart is that TH is 16,20,26mm among others while the other system uses 16,20,25mm.
    My crimp tool and fittings are made by Abit but I can't seem to find any online links except http://www.tiba.pt/index.php?id=125
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2014
     
    Posted By: GotanewlifePush fit is not compression in that compression fittings are brass and the action of tightening the nut forces an olive (or sometimes a ring with a washer) hard onto the pipe - push fits use rubber seals and backward facing spiky things

    So you can use normal brass compression fittings with plastic pipe?

    Finally with multi layer pipe and compression fittings I can seriously bodge something and get away with it - it is a very strong and durable method. Oh and I hate that springy pushfit pipe - with multi-layer pipe I can use a pipe neder and really achieve some tight corners again getting me out of trouble caused by my lack of planning.

    That's a thought. Being a retrofit we have some tights spots between wall and joist positions going up the building that we need to weave through.
    • CommentAuthorGotanewlife
    • CommentTimeJul 8th 2014 edited
     
    Posted By: ShevekSo you can use normal brass compression fittings with plastic pipe?
    Yes but!! The designed for purpose multi-layer fittings are....well designed for multi-layer pipe (and are made of brass), whereas the normal copper compression fittings are made of brass (obviously) and also work well in my ltd experience BUT I would not put a copper fittings somewhere difficult to access and I only use a brass copper fitting when I run out or somesuch other weak excuse.

    Ref bending - obviously all pipes have a minimum bending radius (which I have exceeded on occasion with multi-layer pipe!) and you WILL need a bending tool like the one below because of the variety of dia pipes.
  24.  
    Posted By: ShevekSo you can use normal brass compression fittings with plastic pipe?
    .


    In my experience yes, provided there is a copper (or plastic) insert in the end of the plastic pipe, so that the olive does not deform the pipe. I re-plumbed my house this way not least because it allowed me to clean and reuse many existing fittings.

    (Although I suspect it may be standardised in southern Ireland as asking for "PEX" and/or "inserts" over the counter has so far gotten me the same thing wherever and whatever the manufacturer -- double wall, O2 barrier, imperial sizes.)
    •  
      CommentAuthorJustin
    • CommentTimeJul 9th 2014 edited
     
    If it's any use to anyone. The original "Hepworth" brand came on the market circa ~ 1980 I believe. My father built a house in 1982 using the original black Hepworth and fittings throughout for water and heating. - (Probably nothing like as good as modern stuff since the plastics were all different).

    When the house was sold in 2012 it had all the original fittings, Never seen a single leak.
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeJul 18th 2014
     
    So what specific PEX systems/product would the crimping and compression advocates recommend?
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeJul 22nd 2014 edited
     
    What do you all do for visible plumbing in conjunction with the likes of Speedfit? I assume chrome/copper and flexible hoses, but doesn't that negate the idea of having no joints a little?
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2014
     
    Posted By: ShevekSo what specific PEX systems/product would the crimping and compression advocates recommend?

    So I asked this question and then you did and neither of us has had an answer. I suppose there's not too many!

    FWIW, the WRAS list is at http://www.wras.co.uk/directory/default.htm but it appears to be designed to confuse instead of make life easy. Finding suitable products seems to be a case of scanning very long lists and hoping to pick out suitable ones.

    Aquatechnik Multi-calor pipe seems to be one example - I've written to ask them if they are available in the UK.

    Rifeng F5 fittings & B1 pipe appears to be another.

    I don't know if there are more, and haven't done any comparison. I have no idea if either is any good.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2014
     
    Posted By: ShevekWhat do you all do for visible plumbing in conjunction with the likes of Speedfit? I assume chrome/copper and flexible hoses, but doesn't that negate the idea of having no joints a little?

    Isn't the idea to brink the pipe to the service valve and from there it's the usual flexible tail (or flexible link to copper tail)? It's visible but only if you look underneath the basin etc. I suppose you can paint it? And I expect there are overpriced chromed parts for hotels and the like.
  30.  
    Posted By: djhI expect there are overpriced chromed parts
    Yup

    I finished my pipes at/in the wall with a 1/2" screw thread fittings so that the flexible tail is pretty much all you can see - and even then you have to be pretty nosey to see them!

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