Green Building Forum - Windows XP RIP? Tue, 19 Dec 2023 07:37:39 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Windows XP RIP? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199785#Comment_199785 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199785#Comment_199785 Tue, 08 Apr 2014 16:44:25 +0100 Triassic
As a result, after April 8, 2014, technical assistance for Windows XP will no longer be available, including automatic updates that help protect your PC. Microsoft will also stop providing Microsoft Security Essentials for download on Windows XP on this date. (If you already have Microsoft Security Essentials installed, you will continue to receive antimalware signature updates for a limited time, but this does not mean that your PC will be secure because Microsoft will no longer be providing security updates to help protect your PC.)

If you continue to use Windows XP after support ends, your computer will still work but it might become more vulnerable to security risks and viruses. Also, as more software and hardware manufacturers continue to optimize for more recent versions of Windows, you can expect to encounter greater numbers of apps and devices that do not work with Windows XP.

Need I worry? Should I fall for this marketing ploy and buy new Microsoft products?]]> Windows XP RIP? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199786#Comment_199786 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199786#Comment_199786 Tue, 08 Apr 2014 17:17:24 +0100 Jeff B Windows XP RIP? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199789#Comment_199789 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199789#Comment_199789 Tue, 08 Apr 2014 17:34:13 +0100 PaulJ
Maybe if you want to stick with XP, make sure you have decent AV software and don't use an old (or any?) version of IE as a browser.]]> Windows XP RIP? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199791#Comment_199791 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199791#Comment_199791 Tue, 08 Apr 2014 17:53:17 +0100 Ed Davies
For a private individual (ie, somebody not looking after other people's confidential data) I'd be less concerned. Still, if you find yourself wondering whether to, say, replace a component (hard disk or something) or upgrade to a new machine then I'd suggest getting a supported operating system would might be a nudge in the direction of a change.

Also, yes, make sure your IE is reasonably up to date.

Also also, have you considered Linux, probably Ubuntu or Mint? They fall off support even quicker than Microsoft (5 years for the long-term-support versions of Ubuntu) but at least the upgrade is free. Depends what you use the machine for, I suppose. If you're a heavy Office or Access user things might be a bit tricky, for everybody else it shouldn't be that painful.]]> Windows XP RIP? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199795#Comment_199795 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199795#Comment_199795 Tue, 08 Apr 2014 19:01:00 +0100 borpin Posted By: Ed DaviesNoticed a couple of months ago that my GP's practice was still using XP. Will not be overly impressed if they continue.There is quite an issue in the NHS over this. Most expected that it was a MS bluff. Oops.

I have an XP Vitrtual machine on an old copy of Ubuntu running my mail server. Is as rock solid as rock solid can be and I am so loathe to change it. Not really vulnerable to Viruses or hacks as only port 25 is open so I am just going to let it hum away to itself quietly!]]> Windows XP RIP? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199801#Comment_199801 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199801#Comment_199801 Tue, 08 Apr 2014 19:25:16 +0100 bot de paille I cant think of one.
I think MS have been pretty cool. But Im sure it was also a way to keep customers loyal to the MS brand.]]> Windows XP RIP? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199807#Comment_199807 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199807#Comment_199807 Tue, 08 Apr 2014 20:38:14 +0100 Triassic Posted By: borpinThere is quite an issue in the NHS over this. Most expected that it was a MS bluff. Oops. Didn't I read that the Government has paid MS £5.5 million to continue some support whilst the decide what to do?

edit - and also the Dutch Government
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2338401/dutch-government-coughs-up-millions-for-extended-windows-xp-support]]> Windows XP RIP? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199816#Comment_199816 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199816#Comment_199816 Tue, 08 Apr 2014 22:38:43 +0100 Jeff B Posted By: bot de pailleWhat other business organisation offers support for a 13 year old product??
I cant think of one.
I think MS have been pretty cool. But Im sure it was also a way to keep customers loyal to the MS brand.

My Peugoet van is 13 years old and I have no trouble in getting it maintained and sourcing spare parts. Plus I hope this will continue to be the case for many more years to come!

You may think MS have been "cool", I think they are displaying the arrogance which is often associated with big business. This sort of behaviour hardly encourages loyalty on my part.]]> Windows XP RIP? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199817#Comment_199817 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199817#Comment_199817 Tue, 08 Apr 2014 23:09:36 +0100 Ed Davies Posted By: Jeff BMy Peugoet van is 13 years old and I have no trouble in getting it maintained and sourcing spare parts. Plus I hope this will continue to be the case for many more years to come!Yes, lots of industries support products for more than 13 years - as long as there's money to be made doing so. Few do so for no extra payments.

You could argue, on the other hand, that there's a difference between brake pads wearing out and security holes being found in software. One's normal wear and tear whereas the other is a defect in the original workmanship. I'll stop for fear of ranting.]]> Windows XP RIP? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199819#Comment_199819 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199819#Comment_199819 Tue, 08 Apr 2014 23:28:26 +0100 Gotanewlife Windows XP RIP? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199820#Comment_199820 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199820#Comment_199820 Tue, 08 Apr 2014 23:38:51 +0100 bot de paille Posted By: Jeff B
Posted By: bot de pailleWhat other business organisation offers support for a 13 year old product??
I cant think of one.
I think MS have been pretty cool. But Im sure it was also a way to keep customers loyal to the MS brand.


My Peugoet van is 13 years old and I have no trouble in getting it maintained and sourcing spare parts. Plus I hope this will continue to be the case for many more years to come!

You may think MS have been "cool", I think they are displaying the arrogance which is often associated with big business. This sort of behavior hardly encourages loyalty on my part.

I don't think that this is a valid comparison of service.

I had car recently that had a problem with a turbo failing. this is a known problem with the engine type, and there was even a recall by the makers. The car was under the km warranty but just over 5 years old, invalidating said warranty. The official car garage was however happy to do the turbo replacement for over 2k euros. The same car maker was happy to supply me 1 replacement car key for 130 euros!!

You can go into your local Ford/Citroen/Toyota garage with a 13 year old car and they might or might not be able to source the part and you will probably pay more than the car is worth.

It is well known that car makers make the majority of their profits on after markets sales/parts. I think they make something like 500 euros profit per car on their basic models.

MS sell an OS for less than 100 quid (or supplied with new computer) and provide free security patches and upgrades, plus customer service for 13 years. I defy you to point out another business that offers the same service.


In what way are they being arrogant?]]> Windows XP RIP? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199821#Comment_199821 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199821#Comment_199821 Tue, 08 Apr 2014 23:41:31 +0100 bot de paille Posted By: Ed Davies
Posted By: Jeff BMy Peugoet van is 13 years old and I have no trouble in getting it maintained and sourcing spare parts. Plus I hope this will continue to be the case for many more years to come!
Yes, lots of industries support products for more than 13 years - as long as there's money to be made doing so. Few do so for no extra payments.

You could argue, on the other hand, that there's a difference between brake pads wearing out and security holes being found in software. One's normal wear and tear whereas the other is a defect in the original workmanship. I'll stop for fear of ranting.

What industries are those??

Lots of industries will provide support but you pay them a service contract otherwise they would not give you 5 mins of their time.

As for security, it could well be argued that the code written and released 13 years ago could never envisage or plan for the software/hardware environment of 2014.

People are using their PCs in ways that couldn't be foretold that long ago. To say that they should have built a bullet proof OS to last 20-30 is beyond reasonable.]]> Windows XP RIP? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199822#Comment_199822 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199822#Comment_199822 Tue, 08 Apr 2014 23:53:46 +0100 Triassic
I think I'll just do a full back up tomorrow, just in case, then carry on as normal.

In a few years time Ill probably join a classic XP owners club, where we'll share home made upgrades and tweeks.]]> Windows XP RIP? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199823#Comment_199823 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199823#Comment_199823 Wed, 09 Apr 2014 06:34:08 +0100 SteamyTea Best way to upgrade a PC is to leave it as the manufacture set it up I think (except for IE, which was just dreadful, but Firefox is a memory hogger).
I think people get too hung up on an OS and expect it to do too much. If the open source people could come up with packages as good as Word, Excel and Access then I would go down that route, or MS could release a version(s) for Linux as Excel can now do 10 million rows which would be useful for me.]]> Windows XP RIP? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199828#Comment_199828 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199828#Comment_199828 Wed, 09 Apr 2014 08:45:02 +0100 Seret Posted By: Triassic
Need I worry? Should I fall for this marketing ploy and buy new Microsoft products?

If you have to ask this question, then yes you do need to worry. It's not impossible to keep an XP system secure from this point on, but it would require a depth of technical knowledge and hassle that most home users won't be interested in. Do yourself a favour and upgrade.

I understand that people get attached to a platform, but now is the time to start considering your options. Staying on XP isn't really a good idea. Where you migrate to will depend on what applications you need. I'd definitely recommend one of the many excellent Linux distributions if you want to avoid opening your wallet for another spin in the Microsoft planned obsolescence machine. OS X is an option but probably means buying new hardware. Otherwise your best bet is probably Win 7. It's stable, fairly familiar and is supported until 2020.]]> Windows XP RIP? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199833#Comment_199833 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199833#Comment_199833 Wed, 09 Apr 2014 09:10:08 +0100 Ed Davies Posted By: bot de pailleWhat industries are those??

Lots of industries will provide support but you pay them a service contract otherwise they would not give you 5 mins of their time.
Yes, I'm agreeing with you that JeffB's example of support for his van is different from MS's support for XP.

Posted By: bot de pailleAs for security, it could well be argued that the code written and released 13 years ago could never envisage or plan for the software/hardware environment of 2014.

People are using their PCs in ways that couldn't be foretold that long ago. To say that they should have built a bullet proof OS to last 20-30 is beyond reasonable.
Vulnerabilities are just bugs. Many will have been introduced since the original software shipped in newer drivers and so on. Still, they're more like design faults than wear and tear.

I'd say that almost the whole software industry is grossly irresponsible in the way in which software is developed. We don't know how to do it perfectly (and I think we never will) but we should be making a much bigger effort to get better at it.

I had a major depression a few years ago and failed to complete a, for me, major project for a client. There were a number of reasons which ganged up on me but frustration with crap software development practices was a significant part of it. The concerns I had were with exactly the sort of thing which has caused the major vulnerability in OpenSSL which has caused a bit of a flap over the last few days.]]> Windows XP RIP? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199841#Comment_199841 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199841#Comment_199841 Wed, 09 Apr 2014 10:22:04 +0100 bot de paille
I would consider that pretty much all of the original security bugs have long been patched. The new stuff is a result of continuous compatibility updates.

You cant have your cake and eat it.

Im still genuinely trying to think of another business enterprise that offers free support for 13 year products and I cant think of one.

The recent revelations of deliberate software security crippling by some software developers for the benefit of the NSA puts the OpenSLL problems in an interesting and not altogether clear light.]]> Windows XP RIP? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199846#Comment_199846 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199846#Comment_199846 Wed, 09 Apr 2014 10:46:51 +0100 Timber
You can install it as a duel boot setup if you want to 'try before you buy'. It is easy to install from windows or easy to make a bootable unbuntu CD/DVD.]]> Windows XP RIP? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199849#Comment_199849 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199849#Comment_199849 Wed, 09 Apr 2014 11:01:49 +0100 Simon Still
I tried Ubuntu on an old IBM thinkpad I had and, unexpectedly, because the support life of ubuntu releases is quite short, the latest versions required more recent hardware that my laptop. I did manage to run an older version and it did run a bit quicker than XP, but that of course had the same 'no more security updates' problem that XP is now experiencing.

I've been using Apple at home and Win7 at work for the last few years and I really would recommend a Mac over Windows (and I've heard nothing good at all about Win8 which you'll have trouble avoiding on a new machine) Apple no longer charge for their annual OS upgrades (and when they did they were not expensive). OS X doesn't seem to have the 'rot' that XP and Win7 experience where the machine becomes slower and slower over time/updates. I was using a 6 year old iMac until recently and it was still running at completely acceptable speed and has a few more years in it yet. Whole life cost really not bad at all. Dual boot with a copy of Win7 for those rare occasions when something requires windows.]]> Windows XP RIP? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199851#Comment_199851 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199851#Comment_199851 Wed, 09 Apr 2014 11:30:29 +0100 Ed Davies
OpenSSL.

Indeed. I've long thought that the horrible usability of crypto with practical software might have resulted from blocking by the powers that be. E.g., perhaps some sort of legal pressure on Microsoft, Mozilla, etc, not to build cryptography into Outlook, Thunderbird and what have you to at least make people have to muck around with plugins like Enigmail. I was also aware of concerns about deliberate sabotage of key cryptography algorithms but thought they were rather theoretical (tin-foil hat, actually) but they now seem entirely plausible and it seems quite possible there have been positive interventions to mess things up at the user level as well, as this rather tongue in cheek presentation by Poul-Henning Kamp illustrates:

http://bofh.nikhef.nl/events/FOSDEM//2014/Janson/Sunday/NSA_operation_ORCHESTRA_Annual_Status_Report.webm

At the very least, he shows that the open source community has acted as if it had been deliberately sabotaged in this respect.]]> Windows XP RIP? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199876#Comment_199876 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199876#Comment_199876 Wed, 09 Apr 2014 17:33:36 +0100 Triassic
Come to think of it maybe I'm part of the equation! So I'll keep using XP until 'it', or the hardware, or me fails!!]]> Windows XP RIP? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199902#Comment_199902 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199902#Comment_199902 Wed, 09 Apr 2014 21:54:14 +0100 borpin Posted By: SteamyTeaIf the open source people could come up with packages as good as Word, Excel and AccessLatest version of Open Office is supposed to be pretty good. Depends on what features you need.]]> Windows XP RIP? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199943#Comment_199943 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199943#Comment_199943 Thu, 10 Apr 2014 17:29:04 +0100 CWatters
I also prefer the older version of Office over the newer.]]> Windows XP RIP? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199947#Comment_199947 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=199947#Comment_199947 Thu, 10 Apr 2014 18:07:29 +0100 bot de paille
The biggest shock I had when first trying W8 was that they had removed the Start menu! this is very very weird. Although they have reintroduced it it with the latest update.

I have used windows 7 since it came out without any real problems running Spybot anti-virus.
As usual its a resource pig so your comp needs to be up to it.]]> Windows XP RIP? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=200023#Comment_200023 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=200023#Comment_200023 Fri, 11 Apr 2014 23:36:17 +0100 Andrew_Doran Posted By: Ed Davies

http://bofh.nikhef.nl/events/FOSDEM//2014/Janson/Sunday/NSA_operation_ORCHESTRA_Annual_Status_Report.webm" rel="nofollow" >http://bofh.nikhef.nl/events/FOSDEM//2014/Janson/Sunday/NSA_operation_ORCHESTRA_Annual_Status_Report.webm

At the very least, he shows that the open source community has acted as if it had been deliberately sabotaged in this respect.

I don't know the background of PHK's presentation but in the open source operating systems area (PHK is a FreeBSD guy, I was one of the NetBSD guys) we were aware back in the early 2000s that there was a risk of the US government trying to weaken security sensitive aspects of the systems by underhand means. It modified our behaviour, at least in the NetBSD project. Conversely, the same organisations (NSA, Homeland Security, etc) spent large sums of money on improving the security of open source systems. A real Jekyll and Hyde situation.]]> Windows XP RIP? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=200029#Comment_200029 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11950&Focus=200029#Comment_200029 Sat, 12 Apr 2014 10:12:56 +0100 Ed Davies