Green Building Forum - Xmas shopping, tax-paying alternatives to Amazon etc. Tue, 19 Dec 2023 07:38:16 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Xmas shopping, tax-paying alternatives to Amazon etc. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9899&Focus=191798#Comment_191798 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9899&Focus=191798#Comment_191798 Tue, 17 Dec 2013 21:02:04 +0000 jamesingram I think we had this discussion re. definitions before. Last time I seemed to get them right , but I have a habit of forgetting which is which. Mr Malaprop or is it Mrs Spooner?
Cost = price paid
Value=perceived worth
Wealth=spending potential
Income=money earnt/given
any others, feel free to correct. :smile:]]> Xmas shopping, tax-paying alternatives to Amazon etc. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9899&Focus=191799#Comment_191799 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9899&Focus=191799#Comment_191799 Tue, 17 Dec 2013 21:25:30 +0000 Nick Parsons
Hell! And I've already bought next year's!!]]> Xmas shopping, tax-paying alternatives to Amazon etc. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9899&Focus=191800#Comment_191800 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9899&Focus=191800#Comment_191800 Tue, 17 Dec 2013 21:32:57 +0000 jamesingram Xmas shopping, tax-paying alternatives to Amazon etc. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9899&Focus=191808#Comment_191808 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9899&Focus=191808#Comment_191808 Tue, 17 Dec 2013 22:17:05 +0000 Gotanewlife Xmas shopping, tax-paying alternatives to Amazon etc. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9899&Focus=191815#Comment_191815 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9899&Focus=191815#Comment_191815 Wed, 18 Dec 2013 06:17:47 +0000 SteamyTea Xmas shopping, tax-paying alternatives to Amazon etc. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9899&Focus=191822#Comment_191822 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9899&Focus=191822#Comment_191822 Wed, 18 Dec 2013 09:42:45 +0000 ferdinand2000

Let's not conflate the law with morality. Your obligation to pay taxes is a legal one, not a moral one. You can't legislate for morality. The purpose of the law is to prevent abusive behaviour, not build moral fibre. Amazon aren't doing anything you could call abusive, they're providing an excellent service, keep lots of people in a job and are innovative.

Do I think Amazon are extracting the urine on tax? Of course, but there's no cause for moral outrage. Enforcement of tax law is an administrative matter for the bureaucrats. No one is doing anything illegal or immoral, they're just gaming the system, as you would expect any rational player to do. You can't extrapolate the moral fibre of a company's leadership from their tax bill, all it tells you is how crafty their finance department is.


Most of our laws have a component about morality. What you call abusive (wherever your draw the line) is inherently a moral decision; it can't be anything else. I'd say that the aspiration should be to align law with morality with a wide margin of tolerance; denying morality is to deny ethics which is to duck the hard questions.

Then there is a debate about implementation of morality. The sound and fury I hear is often people trying to pretend that their moral demands are merely "how it is"; or trying to dress up attempts to lock in their (often simplistic) moral opinion on a question as 'implemention'.

Take a clear cut (I hope) moral question - child abuse. We probably mainly agree that child abuse is unacceptable, but we need to argue about a definition of what it is.

But implementation is tricky. We have a database of umpteen million people, apparently for 'safeguarding' children. Does it work - I seem to hear that child abuse is a bigger problem than ever? That is implementation, but try and question it and the response will be moral outrage followed by attempted demonisation.

Let me try a couple of ambiguous cases:

My MP posed topless in a tabloid at the age of borderline 16. That, and possession of such images is, - according to law - is now an act of child abuse since she was under 18. Is it?

Was the threat by a headmaster to brand 8 year old children with a "race discrimination note" on their school records for the next ten years because of non-compliance by their parents a threat of child abuse?

Is divorce an act of child abuse when it is for social reasons? It is a recognised cause of emotional disturbance to kids by wilful decision of their parents, so arguably the answer should be yes in some cases.

(My views: no with consent - our laws are a mess, no because it is not direct - but other similar cases probably have been abusive, maybe).

I'd say it's almost futile to try and disentangle the two; we can only do our best.

This morning I have been listening to a debate about the plastic bag tax on the Tabloid Beeb Breakfast Show. They ended up in a quagmire about "is it a tax or not", arguing about semantics, having gone through morality and coming to a stalemate first. Marvellous :-).

Ferdinand
not a moral philosopher]]>