There seem to be a lot of different definitions of what a smart meter is!

To me it is something that can automatically adjust my power usage, switch on appliances when the supply company wishes.

It is not a remotely readable meter or one that only gives information.

What do you think a smart meter is?

This is timely - I'm just wondering if I should ask for a remotely-readable meter to be installed on our new build so I can avoid a the big plastic box on the outside of the stone skin for the new house! Do they really do nothing more than allow remote meter reading? Can I access it too so I can check on power usage from an ASHP for example?

So A), Should I ask for one for either accurate reading or aesthetic reasons, and
B) Am I likely to get one? Supply to site at moment is with N Power; we're in Durham.

I'd agree with James Ingram: for me the key is variable pricing to make best use of grid capital resources and fuels/pollution.

Also, the information should be available on current prices (probably directly from the meter) and on forecast future prices (maybe through the meter or maybe elsewhere) so that people can optimize their own usage as they please but that should be a private matter between them and their appliance manufacturers rather than direct control from the generators because that would just add more rules and make everything more complicated and restrictive.

To the best of my current knowledge we only have the Half Hour billing meters (though BG have installed some of their own design).
We don't yet have half hourly pricing (still restricted to standard, E7 and E10 plus some strange Scottish ones).

There is a big question mark over the security at the moment as the proposed design was hacked into in a few hours apparently.
The white goods manufacturers are also bringing up problems with reliability (even soap powder people).

Nice idea in theory, but a lot more to it than just load shedding and shifting. It is more than just frequency sensing as future loads are already predicted and the future frequency is already predicted (if you know that in an hours time load is lower, you start turning off well in advance which lowers the frequency, so you can get low load and low frequency).

I wish there was more available but there does seem to be only a lot of theoretical stuff, no actual approved hardware yet.

Posted By: SteamyTeaThere is a big question mark over the security at the moment

But if you buy your beans from Tesco and have a loyalty card they know how many you bought.

Who cares if the neighbour (or anyone else for that matter) can see how much electricity or gas I'm using? Personally I'd make all the data public, it might even help people start saving energy!!

Paul
Was a bit in the IET comic a few months back. The IEEE were apparently concerned
Bit about the conference in 2012 here:
http://smartgridsherpa.com/blog/a-summary-from-the-iet-smart-metering-conference
and para 41 here:
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmselect/cmenergy/161/16106.htm

The problem with the security is not how much you you but when you use it. This can show when your property is empty.
It is also useful information for energy companies when they want to poach business. So not the same as Tesco Club Card information at all.

Posted By: Triassicthe meter only takes a reading and transmits that to a central computer

Via the handheld device that the meter reader/van uses, then via the metering companies computer system, then probably though a third party or 3 before it gets to your energy billing company. Metering, distribution, billing and supplier are often separate companies.

<blockquote><cite>Posted By: SteamyTea</cite>Via the handheld device that the meter reader/van uses,</blockquote>

The systems here do not necessarily require a van - they use the cellphone networks to transmit the data. We have a "dumb" remote-read gas meter that does require a drive-by, but the smart electrical meters do not need this as far as I understand, as they transmit in the 2.4GHz range, and all the clueless people are terrified of being microwaved to death.

The security issue is such that a thief could target a whole neighbourhood remotely and find out which dwellings are empty, without all the usual tedium of staking them out. But I still think that's a pretty unlikely risk myself.

Paul in Montreal.

Posted By: TriassicBut wait, surly the meter only takes a reading and transmits that to a central computer and that is the place where the pricing formula is applied.

Yes, you're probably right. Still, you wouldn't want a man-in-middle attack on that link saying you'd used hundreds of kWh more than you had.

Posted By: SteamyTeaMy contract is between my energy billing company and myself.

The problem is that there are a number of independant companies between you and the energy billing company. The meter reader (G4S here), Local transmitting company (Electricity NW), National Grid (transmission and meter owner), no doubt with some thought I could go on. It's got to the point that rather than being an integrated business it is so fragmented that even the wages are dealt with by a private company.

Sorry the question was what is a smart meter - answer - As we make the transition to a low carbon economy, smart meters have a vital role to play. Consumers will be given the information they need to fully understand and manage their energy consumption effectively, save money and reduce carbon emissions. This will be central to help tackle climate change and to deal with consumer concerns about the rising costs of energy.

Source - https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/ofgem-publications/63541/smart-metering-prospectus.pdf

Posted By: Paul in MontrealReally? There's places in the UK with no cell coverage?

I live in a rural house and we only get coverage upstairs, a friend has to walk about 100m up a hill at the back of his cottage to get a signal, not good in wet and cold weather. The bank had him on hold for ten minutes yesterday, he was not best pleased as it was raining!!

Posted By: Paul in MontrealReally? There's places in the UK with no cell coverage?

There are loads of areas with no coverage, especially so in Scotland.

http://ukmobilecoverage.co.uk/

Posted By: Paul in MontrealReally? There's places in the UK with no cell coverage?

He's being ironic - I think?!
I value greatly the absence of mobile signal where I live, also the silence from traffic, the pitch-dark at night and no Wifi! However broadband struggles to get 1MB and phone lines fail frequently so am considering satellite, provided that doesn't create 'always' on' radiation. Must also check the landlord's interconnected smoke alarms, also door bell - are those irradiating us? Also rebuilding as much as poss of my computer into a remote box in the cellar, cos it def brings on my tinnitus, between annual get-aways.

.

"Smart" meters are half-hourly meters (48 different counters in the meter to count when you used your electricity)

-with remote read capability (sometimes)
-with remote reprogramming capability (to change tariffs)
-with remote disconnect capability (so that some dumb fuck in a call centre can mash the wrong button on the keypad and turn off grandma's life support)

It's a shitfest inspired by the EU, gold plated by consultants to DECC, manipulated by retail arms of utilities and meter manufacturers, and appears to have Capita as it's data services provider. Think of it as welfare payments for the industries involved, paid for via a bill on domestic energy, that will achieve nothing for the efficiency of the networks.


Meanwhile, Nest energy services are going about it all the right way:

http://www.fastcodesign.com/1672408/next-for-nest-building-out-the-smart-grid-one-home-at-a-time

Having "smarted" heating and cooling via electricity - including all those patents about automatically "optimising how comfortable you can make me for $50/month" or "implementing I'm prepared to sacrifice 0.5 degree days of comfort in exchange for $20" - the next steps are domestic hot water, fridge-freezers, and then you're essentially done.

They've got a ways to go before they understand the Euro-centric "hydronic" systems and masonry buildings with large time constants - the lightweight insulated sheds with rapid response heatng/cooling systems that they build in the US are *much* easier to control well.