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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 10th 2007
     
    Posted By: biffvernonsome of the energy comes from oxidising the hydrogen
    Of course - why didn't I realise that? Makes a big difference.
    Oil also, like methane (natural gas) is all-hydrocarbon. What %age then of fuel value (energy of oxidation released) comes from hydrogen versus carbon, in typical hydrocarbon as fuel? Does wood really contain any pure carbon - isn't its combustible matter all-hydrocarbon?
    • CommentAuthorJohn11668
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2007
     
    It is probably irresponsible to burn coal on an open fire . 25 percent efficiency is probably overstated.
    They are reopening the mines in South Wales because the price of imported stuff has gone up to the extent that it is now economic to dig the British coal.
    We are committed until alternative sources of power generation catch up and I indeed wonder if they ever will.
    So I expect coal and nuclear will satisfy a large proportion of demand for the foreseeable future.

    I would be happier to see coal burnt in power stations than on open fires. At least the products can be scrubbed of many of the pollutants and hopefully carbon capture will become a reality soon.

    The biggest factor in making power plant more efficient would be to move generally toward CHP. The heat wasted at the back end of the generation process is criminal and cannot go on. Expect the next generation of power stations to be urban ones with district heating from a number of heatbanks distributed around the district. Anyone with surplus capacity will be encouraged to distribute it into the system.

    We seem to have to have our Cumbrian fells surrounded by Aerogenerators. I am looking forward to the debate about siting a Large CHP plant in Windsor or Richmond
    • CommentAuthorJohn11668
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2007
     
    Adrian

    If coal and pellets are priced similarly at about £170 per tonne and the calorific value of your pellets is about half of that of coal so it is going to cost you twice as much for the same amount of heat. On top of this you are going to have a vastly more expensive and complicated boiler which could be less reliable., and the chances are that it will be expensive to repair.

    If your consumption is only £20 per month (did you mean week) then you are hardly a major culprit in the environmental damage stakes.
    Finally woodburning does not become carbon neutral till we are planting the trees sufficiently in advance and sufficiently in excess of usage.
    Why dont we all pay a couple of quid a week in carbon offset fees ring fenced to increase the stock of wood and carbon absorbing vegetation, and carry on with the old boiler for as long as it continues to work reliably.
    I suspect that the carbon footprint of the new one may never be saved in its working life.
    • CommentAuthorsune
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2007
     
    Hi

    I haven't managed to get quite the figures I wanted but I have got quite close. I have prepared a page with a graph to compare co2 outputs of various fuel types: http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/fuel-co2-emissions.html
    Some of the data are from the biomass energy centre and some from SAP figures (for part L1A building regs).

    Burning wood is not carbon neutral - but if and only if it from a sustainable source (as John mentions) is very low carbon.

    Cheers
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2007
     
    Verrry interesting sune. Could you say more about the assumptions incorporated e.g is coal from Wales or Australia; is woodfuel logged by horse and manpower, with little soil disturbance, or diesel loggers and forwarders which also cause CO2 release by chawing up the ground; etc.
    • CommentAuthorsune
    • CommentTimeApr 27th 2007
     
    I have been getting data from a few sources and do not have all the basic calcultions myself.

    Wood chips
    For wood chips the data comes via the biomass energy centre from a paper from Sheffield Hallam university - I can forward it to you if you so wish. Just email me your email address. Mine is s u n e * stovesonline .co.uk replace the * with an @ - hopefully that will thrawt the dredded spam! The figures from the paper assume road transport of 90km.

    Logs
    I could not get a figure for logs but the asumption that wood chips create more co2 through processing than logs was verified by the biomass energy centre so I chose the highest figure for the wood chips as a figure that logs should be below.

    Wood pellets
    For pellets the figure is based on 100kWh of electricity / tonne plus the Co2 processing and transport costs associated with wood chips - this figure will be too high as wood pellets are generally made from manufacturing waste material not chipped by a machine.

    Coal - the figure is based on the SAP figures from BRE. I do not know where they assumed that the coal was from. I have another figure from the Biomass Energy centre for the CO2 created from the burning alone of 0.342 kg CO2 / KwH - so this suggests that the SAP figure of 0.317 kg CO2/kWh for the lifecycle emissions of anthracite is actually too low.

    I do not really have any more detailed info than that I am afraid - If you have any extra data I would be interested.

    I agree there are no hard and fast results - all the figures are based on various assumptions. But hopefully I have made our figures as transparent as possible (without being full of too much explanatory text that would put off a layperson).

    : )
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 27th 2007
     
    Posted By: sunewood pellets are generally made from manufacturing waste material not chipped by a machine
    That's significant.
    Thanks for doing the research, sune.
  1.  
    John11668, yea 20 quid a month that's all it costs me in coal - though I might add it's costing me nothing but the immersion heater at the moment (solar to come...)

    Sune, that's a great summary, many thanks. I'll link to it from my blog. I'm looking at heat logs from Agrol or similar at the moment for a coal replacement. They are manufactured, but like your chart demonstrates so well - there is little 'new' carbon emissions involved and they are a waste product.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 30th 2007
     
    As funcrusher has succinctly summarised, there are other downsides to consider as well: http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=235&page=1#Item_0 - weigh the alternatives.
    • CommentAuthorGuest
    • CommentTimeMay 14th 2007
     
    Look out for all biomass + fossil fuel (coal) burning cast iron stove with 30litre boiler coming out in August in South Africa:
    1. It burns smokelessly(all biomass + low grade coal)
    2. Uses up to 60% less fuel than any alternative
    3. Boils 30 litres of water within 30 minutes(boiler part of stove)

    Will be implemented in households in RSA as environmentally friendly device; health improvement and sustainable development project.

    Unique concept - no electricity.
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