Green Building Forum - Windfarm construction subsidies Tue, 19 Dec 2023 07:37:23 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Windfarm construction subsidies http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212047#Comment_212047 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212047#Comment_212047 Tue, 28 Oct 2014 09:18:50 +0000 Ed Davies Windfarm construction subsidies http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212048#Comment_212048 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212048#Comment_212048 Tue, 28 Oct 2014 09:22:13 +0000 SteamyTea Can give you a number of someone who may know for sure.]]> Windfarm construction subsidies http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212054#Comment_212054 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212054#Comment_212054 Tue, 28 Oct 2014 10:53:47 +0000 fostertom
I must say, much as I like all the elegant turbines I see as I trundle down the A30 (means you're really in Cornwall now), there has to be a limit - miles of nothing between isolated wind farms. If they were on every Cornish hilltop, that would be a blight.]]> Windfarm construction subsidies http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212060#Comment_212060 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212060#Comment_212060 Tue, 28 Oct 2014 11:10:24 +0000 ringi
PV does not help, as the peak demand is on cold winter evenings.]]> Windfarm construction subsidies http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212062#Comment_212062 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212062#Comment_212062 Tue, 28 Oct 2014 11:32:55 +0000 Ed Davies Windfarm construction subsidies http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212066#Comment_212066 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212066#Comment_212066 Tue, 28 Oct 2014 11:51:18 +0000 ringi
So in an area with lots of Wind farms but low depend, the connection charge will be more, as the additional wind farms make it more likely that the network will need upgrading to cope with the additional generating capacity.]]> Windfarm construction subsidies http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212068#Comment_212068 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212068#Comment_212068 Tue, 28 Oct 2014 12:15:32 +0000 Ed Davies
Relatedly, there's also the payments windfarms get when the grid turns down the electricity they offer if the grid doesn't have the capacity to distribute it but a) that applies as much to other producers and b) it's not really a subsidy, just a matter of contractual agreement.

Background is that I had an argument with somebody about this. I'm going to avoid that particular person in future but there are a lot of people around here who are anti-windfarm and I want to be sure of my facts and sources if it comes up again.]]> Windfarm construction subsidies http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212069#Comment_212069 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212069#Comment_212069 Tue, 28 Oct 2014 12:19:23 +0000 gustyturbine I am very pro wind power generally as I am linked to the industry.

I also have a major issue with turbines that are engineered to produce 900kW being limted through software to get the FITS payment. In my view that is just totally wrong in every way. My solution would be to let the owner get the 500kW rate and for power above the 500kW limit the rate drops away.]]> Windfarm construction subsidies http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212072#Comment_212072 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212072#Comment_212072 Tue, 28 Oct 2014 12:29:21 +0000 ringi Windfarm construction subsidies http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212073#Comment_212073 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212073#Comment_212073 Tue, 28 Oct 2014 12:30:03 +0000 atomicbisf
Ed]]> Windfarm construction subsidies http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212074#Comment_212074 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212074#Comment_212074 Tue, 28 Oct 2014 12:36:42 +0000 fostertom
It's so simple a story that the press could easily run it - the scandal that government squanders the national benefit that should arise from the public spirited 'suffering' that huge turbines impose on communities.]]> Windfarm construction subsidies http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212077#Comment_212077 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212077#Comment_212077 Tue, 28 Oct 2014 12:53:52 +0000 gustyturbine
FIT limit at 500kW is just wrong in my view. I don't blame the owners but the system is twisted.

ringi- That is when capacity factor becomes more relevant. Any turbine not running in the 20's at the very least is poorly sited and should not be there at all. The sites I manage run at around 33% capacity factor. Fairly good for the UK. If a turbine is erected to generate power from the wind it should in my view be positioned to take full advantge of high and low winds. Very low wind sites should stick to PV or tidal/hydro.

Wind does not work in every loaction across the country. People also tend to think that turbines shut down in high winds all of the time for safety reasons. The modern Enercon turbine will run in 35m/s, roughly 70mph wind speed. Now that is a windy day.]]> Windfarm construction subsidies http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212080#Comment_212080 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212080#Comment_212080 Tue, 28 Oct 2014 13:08:24 +0000 Ed Davies Windfarm construction subsidies http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212097#Comment_212097 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212097#Comment_212097 Tue, 28 Oct 2014 15:01:33 +0000 Ed Davies
Steamy's hypothesis that there are regional subsidies is at least plausible and relevant - be interesting to see if anything comes of his minor enquiries on the subject.]]> Windfarm construction subsidies http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212104#Comment_212104 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212104#Comment_212104 Tue, 28 Oct 2014 15:42:41 +0000 SteamyTea It was suggested that the best method for funding (for smaller turbines, less that 10 2MW) is community finding and initiatives.
They may get funding for other areas of the installation, say training and education/visitor centres.

If you are on the FITs (tends to be for the smaller stuff) then you get the money on generation. You can enter the auction market, but are more at the mercy of the weather and demand, but does pay better overall. But that is really for the large developers who can afford to 'buy in' at 20p/kWh if they need to (basically domestic rates).

There has been a fair bit on the radio today about our generation (because we are low on spare capacity again).
What annoys the hell out of me is when they say that RE is unreliable i.e. the wind don't blow and the sun don't shine.
These two are forecast very well (most of us know when it gets dark, well we did last week). They give the impression that one cloud or a bit of a stiff gust kills all RE generation completely.
It is also worth mentioning that the woman that runs the National Grid says there is not a real problem at the moment, it is tight, but not fatal. She only had a few minutes to explain that they are negotiating with generators to run in stand-by mode, large users to reduce load. It is not as if we only have one power station and if that goes wrong we are snookered.



Posted By: ringiCornwall is a special case, as there is a lot more electricity used in Cornwall then generated in Cornwall. The cables feeding Cornwall are also mostly at capacity and very expensive to upgrade.
Wrong.
The bulk transport down here is excellent. Plenty of capacity, part of the reason there is a 900 MW gas plant in Plymouth. The end of the line at Hayle is especially robust as there used to be a power station there, they never built the nuclear one though, it is to radio active down here to start with. But the Wave Hub (what a joke) can easily supply to it (but that is just a testing ground).
There is some trouble with over capacity on some tiny rural cables and transformers, but WP do a very good job at upgrading where they can/need to.]]> Windfarm construction subsidies http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212105#Comment_212105 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212105#Comment_212105 Tue, 28 Oct 2014 15:51:12 +0000 Ed Davies Windfarm construction subsidies http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212107#Comment_212107 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212107#Comment_212107 Tue, 28 Oct 2014 15:54:55 +0000 ringi
For many years no one could get planning approval to build new power stations in Cornwall, hence the flow got very unbalanced. So anyone wishing to generate in Cornwall got a very good deal on connection charges.]]> Windfarm construction subsidies http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212108#Comment_212108 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212108#Comment_212108 Tue, 28 Oct 2014 16:02:27 +0000 SteamyTea Once away from the small scale stuff (should be called government backed financial services), all the big boys play by the same rules, it is what the CfD was all about. The wholesale price is heading towards £120/MWh, even for gas and coal when the carbon taxes start to bite (it is what they are for).

Personally I think everyone should play by the same rules. Electrical generation needs a central control system, even a distributed network. How long would the interweb last without agreed standards and controls.]]> Windfarm construction subsidies http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212131#Comment_212131 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212131#Comment_212131 Tue, 28 Oct 2014 20:43:51 +0000 CWatters
Edit: Looks like 8% a year..

http://www.energyclever.com/index.php?solar=capital-allowances

"The enhanced capital allowances do not apply to Solar PV and Wind Turbine systems as they are generating equipment,not energy saving equipment. Instead a solar PV or a Wind Turbine system may be claimed under the new annual investment allowance of £25,000 (April 2012, previously £100,000) ) and then under the special rate writing down allowance of 8 % (April 2012 )."]]> Windfarm construction subsidies http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212173#Comment_212173 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212173#Comment_212173 Wed, 29 Oct 2014 13:53:18 +0000 renewablejohn Windfarm construction subsidies http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212196#Comment_212196 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212196#Comment_212196 Wed, 29 Oct 2014 20:25:46 +0000 SteamyTea
Spoke to my mate who works for an energy quango in a regional office in Glasgow, England.
Apparently there are some grants up there, one for £6m has just closed.
Most is administered though the Energy Saving Trust Scotland.

CARES: http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/scotland/Communities/Community-And-Renewable-Energy-Scheme

Warm Homes Scotland: http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/scotland/Take-action/Get-business-funding/Warm-Homes-Fund

REIS: http://archive.scottish.parliament.uk/business/committees/enterprise/inquiries/rei/ec04-reis-scottishchamber.htm

Community Energy Scotland: http://www.communityenergyscotland.org.uk/index.asp

Scotland has an aim to be powered by 100% renewable energy, just turn off Glasgow should help.:wink:]]> Windfarm construction subsidies http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212200#Comment_212200 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212200#Comment_212200 Wed, 29 Oct 2014 22:09:46 +0000 Ed Davies
Posted By: SteamyTeaScotland has an aim to be powered by 100% renewable energy
Not quite, the actual aim is a lot less ambitious/more realistic/completely inadequate: equivalent of 100% renewable electricity (not energy):

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/archive/National-Planning-Policy/themes/renewables

Scottish Government Policy is to generate the equivalent of 100% of Scotland's gross annual electricity consumption , the equivalent of 11% of Scotland's heat demand met from renewable sources and 500 MW of community and locally-owned renewable energy, all by 2020.
I think that's saying they want to produce a certain amount of energy from renewables. That amount is the same as the annual electricity consumption. It's also the the same as 11% of the heat demand which is a bit surprising as I thought electricity was generally between a 10th and a 6th of total energy use and there's no mention of transport there.

(Off to look at some of the links from that page which might have information on subsidies other than generation for the big turbines.)

Actually, it seems the 11%-of-the-heat-demand aim is separate from the 100%-electricity aim:

For example, the renewable heat target of 11% will be built upon a much wider development and uptake of such sources as geothermal, solar and biomass heat which will rely on access to the Renewable Heat Incentive for support; meanwhile, the transport target relies at present on the success of the Renewable Transport Fuel Obligation, but will depend much more over time on advances in the electrification of private and public vehicles.
From 2.2.3 of:

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2011/08/04110353/4#costsandaccesstofinance]]> Windfarm construction subsidies http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212201#Comment_212201 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212201#Comment_212201 Wed, 29 Oct 2014 22:26:21 +0000 SteamyTea Windfarm construction subsidies http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212227#Comment_212227 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212227#Comment_212227 Thu, 30 Oct 2014 11:30:53 +0000 fostertom Posted By: SteamyTeaGlasgow, EnglandI've heard of Sheffield, Cornwall but this is ridiculous.]]> Windfarm construction subsidies http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212236#Comment_212236 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212236#Comment_212236 Thu, 30 Oct 2014 13:45:06 +0000 SteamyTea Posted By: fostertomGlasgow, EnglandThey lost the popularity poll.
You never heard an American talk about their vacation to Scotland, England then!!]]> Windfarm construction subsidies http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212245#Comment_212245 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212245#Comment_212245 Thu, 30 Oct 2014 14:52:24 +0000 fostertom
The Bentley (Microstation) 'Dataset' regionally customised (very poorly) from the American base-Dataset is titled Dataset_GB. Now that rules out N Ireland, IOW, Hebrides, Orkneys, Doggerland etc - but is supposed to include IOM and Channel Islands (which are neither GB nor UK), and Republic of Ireland! That's American error, but I always wondered about homegrown-error GB plates on cars. The now universal UK label seems to have originated elsewhere than from 'here' - good invention.]]> Windfarm construction subsidies http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212271#Comment_212271 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212271#Comment_212271 Thu, 30 Oct 2014 20:24:23 +0000 Ed Davies
http://www.iso.org/iso/country_codes/country_codes

For this reason the Ukrainians are a bit teed off that the UK uses .uk for its Internet top-level domain - it's a historical accident left over from when the Internet was mostly academic and JANET (the Joint Academic Network) used .uk. AFAIK, the UK is the only country not to use its ISO country code for its TLD though, of course, only a few US sites are actually in the .us domain.]]> Windfarm construction subsidies http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212285#Comment_212285 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212285#Comment_212285 Fri, 31 Oct 2014 00:14:19 +0000 fostertom Windfarm construction subsidies http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212287#Comment_212287 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212287#Comment_212287 Fri, 31 Oct 2014 07:49:18 +0000 Triassic
Edit . A quick search suggests the turbine was installed in 2009 by Virgin Trains, so come on Virgin why is your turbine not operational?]]> Windfarm construction subsidies http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212290#Comment_212290 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12721&Focus=212290#Comment_212290 Fri, 31 Oct 2014 09:06:19 +0000 Ed Davies Posted By: fostertomWhat should we call our island then, if 'Great Britain' means something else?The island is Great Britain. It has three countries on it (England, Scotland and Wales). They're all parts of the United Kingdom (at least for now) as is Northern Ireland (at least for now) which not in or on Great Britain (at least for a geologically long meaning of now).

But using the letters “GB” as a code for the United Kingdom is reasonable.]]>