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Renewable Energy: How much PV has the UK installed to date?

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    • CommentAuthorRobinB
    • CommentTimeMay 15th 2012
     
    Anyone know? thanks
    RobinB
    •  
      CommentAuthorDamonHD
    • CommentTimeMay 15th 2012
     
    Looks at various Ofgem/DECC charts/reports, eg:

    http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/statistics/local_auth/interactive/domestic_solar/index.html

    http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/statistics/energy_stats/source/fits/fits.aspx

    Rgds

    Damon
    •  
      CommentAuthorted
    • CommentTimeMay 15th 2012
     
    I make it about 1.3 GW.
    • CommentAuthorwindy lamb
    • CommentTimeMay 15th 2012
     
    I said it was one big roof!
    • CommentAuthorRobinB
    • CommentTimeMay 15th 2012
     
    Thanks for the answers

    Compared to Drax, our biggest power station, which Wikepedia says has a generating capacity of 3,960 megawatts and provides about 7% of the United Kingdom's electricity supply that doesn't seem too bad.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDamonHD
    • CommentTimeMay 15th 2012
     
    Well, except that the capacity factor of DRAX is probably >80% and of PV <15% (yes, I don't like using capacity factor) and that makes the GWh/year look a lot less good. I think that we should be aiming for >20GWp of PV, ASAP.

    Rgds

    Damon
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeMay 15th 2012
     
    Posted By: DamonHDI think that we should be aiming for >20GWp of PV, ASAP.

    Just read the consultation paper, I think the government want the same as that way they will not have to do any administration.
    Personally I like that idea, and getting rid of generation payments and all other nonsenses that artificially skew the marketplace.
    • CommentAuthorRobinB
    • CommentTimeMay 15th 2012
     
    Freely admit I am a bit ignorant when it comes to big numbers. I was wondering how close the PV installed had come to replacing a power station. Thinking we could do with the government feeling a bit more positive about PV rather than dwelling on the FITS payments. More = better.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDamonHD
    • CommentTimeMay 15th 2012
     
    When the sun is out, 1GW+ of PV is a big power station, like the nuke Sizewell B. Its average is the equivalent of a smallish gas turbine, but by happy coincidence humans are more active in daytime, so PV is more useful than that average suggests.

    Rgds

    Damon
    • CommentAuthorMegacycles
    • CommentTimeMay 15th 2012
     
    And most PV generates close to point of use so significantly reduces transmission losses which I think are around 10%.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDamonHD
    • CommentTimeMay 15th 2012
     
    The biggest chunk of losses is in distribution, and close to 5% typically in the UK I believe. Transmission losses on average ~2%. But if PV in the south avoids a long trek from the north where much of the generation is, you could be saving more.

    Rgds

    Damon



    My notes say:

    # Estimated losses (0--1, 0 means no loss) in transmission and distribution.
    # This affects (inflates) the actual effective intensity as seen by a domestic consumer.
    intensity.loss.transmission=0.02
    # Originally 7%, but according to Annette, and James of DECC, 2011/09/14,
    # "distribution [only] losses averaging 5%, ranging from 3.7% for Yorkshire area
    & 8% for Scottish Hydro)".
    intensity.loss.distribution=0.05
    • CommentAuthorGavin_A
    • CommentTimeMay 16th 2012
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: DamonHD</cite>When the sun is out, 1GW+ of PV is a big power station, like the nuke Sizewell B. Its average is the equivalent of a smallish gas turbine, but by happy coincidence humans are more active in daytime, so PV is more useful than that average suggests.

    Rgds

    Damon</blockquote>
    IIRC the capacity factor of most UK nukes has been around 30% over the last few years with the amount of breakdowns etc (figure may be a little out of date).

    Similarly most of the coal plants that haven't got scrubbers, will increasingly be having capacity factors fairly similar to PV as we approach 2015.

    Obviously PV can't have a capacity factor anywhere close to new nuclear / coal / gas, but it's not replacing the new stuff, it's replacing the old knackered stuff where the capacity factors will be more similar. Anyway, I'm sure you get the point I'm attempting to make.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDamonHD
    • CommentTimeMay 16th 2012
     
    I'm not knocking PV, really I'm not, I'm just suggesting that a straight nameplate-capacity comparison against demand-callable generation is not necessarily that useful.

    Rgds

    Damon
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeMay 16th 2012
     
    Have to distinguish between installed capacity and generation

    So Installed Capacity is in kW (or MW)
    Generation is in kWh (or MWh)

    Makes a difference as a PV system down here is worth more than one up in Scotland for the same installed capacity.

    Comparing that to a traditional method of generation becomes difficult as traditional generation is often used for different purposes, be that base load, balancing, peak load only.
    Then you have the issues of integrating into a national grid, who should have priority and what should the criteria be. Should it be price or cost?
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeMay 16th 2012
     
    Posted By: Gavin_AObviously PV can't have a capacity factor anywhere close to new nuclear / coal / gas
    What's the capacity factor of PV + wind put together - quite gd I'd have thought, as they both tend to fill ea others' hole.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeMay 16th 2012
     
    Posted By: fostertomWhat's the capacity factor of PV + wind put together - quite gd I'd have thought, as they both tend to fill ea others' hole


    Not really realistic to combine the two as they are not comparing like for like with respect to time.

    Solar generation has little to do with windpseed and turbine generation has little to do with light intensity (or lack of it).

    What you have to look at is seasonal generation potential and then see how well they match together. Then look at hourly generation and look at how well those two match.
    • CommentAuthorGavin_A
    • CommentTimeMay 16th 2012
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: DamonHD</cite>I'm not knocking PV, really I'm not, I'm just suggesting that a straight nameplate-capacity comparison against demand-callable generation is not necessarily that useful.

    Rgds

    Damon</blockquote>
    I didn't think you were, I was just pointing out that it's all a lot different when you compare PV with the plant it's actually replacing rather than actual new nukes / coal etc.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeMay 16th 2012
     
    Posted By: SteamyTeaWhat you have to look at is seasonal generation potential and then see how well they match together. Then look at hourly generation and look at how well those two match.
    That was my question!
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeMay 16th 2012
     
    Posted By: fostertomThat was my question!

    The answer then is covariance :wink:
    • CommentAuthorjms452
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2013
     
    Just doing a tally on this and I get 1.6Gw of PV under 50kW.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/weekly-solar-pv-installation-and-capacity-based-on-registration-date

    Does anyone know where I would get figures for the upto date installed capacity of>50kW installations?

    Cheers
    • CommentAuthorjms452
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2013
     
    Found it - 2GWp!

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/208570/renewables.pdf
    •  
      CommentAuthorted
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2013
     
    The figure is 1.966 GWp from Table 6.1 of renewables.pdf - and that is all solar not just over 50kW.

    Also make sure you are comparing like for like periods when using different reports. The spreadsheet is to 30th June but the report is to Q1 2013 so only includes data to the end of March.
    • CommentAuthorjms452
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2013
     
    Thanks

    I meant total PV = 2GWp (the report summary rounded up a smudge).

    Pretty good progress really from 1.3GWp little over a year ago.

    2 ~10MW farms are proposed round here. One passed planning and the other in planning.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJul 6th 2013
     
    Posted By: jms452Pretty good progress really from 1.3GWp little over a year ago.
    It is the peak installed capacity not the energy generated. Still a long way to go before it makes a significant impact on the grid.
    Shame it seems to be planning that is holding it all up rather than financing, operating.
    • CommentAuthorjms452
    • CommentTimeJul 6th 2013
     
    Posted By: SteamyTeaIt is the peak installed capacity not the energy generated.


    Indeed - but for a given technology the energy generated is proportional to the peak capacity unless the quality of installations has dropped.

    locally the PV seems to go through planning fairly quickly with a low tens of letters against and no appeals. The windfarm on the other hand got about 200 representations against and is still in planning after over a year despite costing customers half the subsidy (of the PV).
    • CommentAuthorjms452
    • CommentTimeJul 6th 2013
     
    Posted By: SteamyTeaStill a long way to go before it makes a significant impact on the grid


    On average/total-generated you are totally right.

    But at the moment PV is probably exceeding 5% of the demand :bigsmile:
  27.  
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: SteamyTea</cite><blockquote><cite>Posted By: jms452</cite>Pretty good progress really from 1.3GWp little over a year ago.</blockquote>It is the peak installed capacity not the energy generated. Still a long way to go before it makes a significant impact on the grid.
    Shame it seems to be planning that is holding it all up rather than financing, operating.</blockquote>

    On sunny days can already see a dip in power generation although with a significant amount being embedded it is difficult to put numbers on the actual solar generation. Pity we don't have a generation prediction meter like Germany.
  28.  
    re. PV generated relative to export and installed capacity , just been a year since I fitted my own export monitoring meter.
    My 4kWp system , total year generation 3925.6 kWh , exported 3051.4kWh so around 78% exported
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJul 6th 2013
     
    Posted By: renewablejohnOn sunny days can already see a dip in power generation although with a significant amount being embedded it is difficult to put numbers on the actual solar generation.
    Where can we see that data please?

    Posted By: renewablejohnPity we don't have a generation prediction meter like Germany.
    Yes it is, but I tend to work on 9% of installed capacity.

    Posted By: jamesingramtotal year generation 3925.6 kWh , exported 3051.4kWh so around 78% exported
    You need to plug your van in when your out at work :bigsmile:
    • CommentAuthorjms452
    • CommentTimeJul 6th 2013
     
    renewablejohn might be referring to this:

    http://www.carboncommentary.com/2013/06/07/3090

    Not totally rigorous but interesting.

    Posted By: renewablejohnPity we don't have a generation prediction meter like Germany.


    This could be a good niche website if you could get the lat/long, orientation, roof pitch and peak capacity data for each installation and then wrap in the weather. Its all at DECC but I have't seem it in a spread sheet yet...

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