Green Building Forum - Energy Performance Certificates Tue, 19 Dec 2023 05:30:37 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Energy Performance Certificates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=287972#Comment_287972 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=287972#Comment_287972 Mon, 08 Mar 2021 14:16:29 +0000 djh Posted By: WillInAberdeenThe carbon price is definitely the long term way to go but would have to be applied to all energy purchases
Not just energy, everything. Clearly ultimately the cause can almost always be considered due to some energy usage, but the carbon price of beef isn't associated in most people's minds with an energy purchase.

Posted By: Peter_in_HungaryThe problem with taxing energy (fuel) to drive reduction in use and make insulation (e.g.EWI) cost effective is that the well off will continue to ignore the problem and the those in fuel and food poverty will suffer even more.

That's why a revenue neutral tax where the proceeds are paid back to the population on a per-head basis is attractive. But then you have the problem of how to pay for the carbon extraction :) So some political horse-trading is required.

Posted By: Simon StillBut it seems almost impossible to get an A

I had thought it was quite easy - just add lots of renewable generation bling. But perhaps the system has changed.

Posted By: Mike1Specifically, from 2023 it will be illegal for landlords to offer for rent a home with a an EPC forecasting an energy requirement of >450kWh / m²

Sorry, 450 kWh/m²? Is that measured on a comparable basis to the PH figure of 15 kWh/m²/a? My mind is boggled.]]> Energy Performance Certificates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=287973#Comment_287973 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=287973#Comment_287973 Mon, 08 Mar 2021 14:51:06 +0000 Simon Still Posted By: djhI had thought it was quite easy - just add lots of renewable generation bling. But perhaps the system has changed.


I know the people who built this - https://www.themodernhouse.com/sales-list/the-treehouse-ii/

Ground source heating, Solar Water, solar electric, MVHR. Highly insulated, 3G, energy efficient lighting. I'd struggle to think of anything to add yet its' still a couple of points below an A despite being claimed 'energy self sufficient'. Interestingly the EPC suggests the score is the max the house can achieve...

Our house is similar but with Gas heating and no solar. Ours scored 86 and with the only advisory being 'add solar' which would have got us to 91.]]> Energy Performance Certificates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=287974#Comment_287974 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=287974#Comment_287974 Mon, 08 Mar 2021 17:41:09 +0000 Mike1 Posted By: djhSorry, 450 kWh/m²? Is that measured on a comparable basis to the PH figure of 15 kWh/m²/a? My mind is boggled.I'm sure they don't use PHPP, but roughly similar, I imagine. In French they're known as 'thermal sieves'. No doubt there are still tens of thousands of them in the UK too.]]> Energy Performance Certificates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=287976#Comment_287976 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=287976#Comment_287976 Mon, 08 Mar 2021 17:53:23 +0000 djh Posted By: Simon StillI'd struggle to think of anything to add
More PV! That's what I mean by RE bling. AIUI you can just add more PV until you get an A rating.]]> Energy Performance Certificates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=287977#Comment_287977 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=287977#Comment_287977 Mon, 08 Mar 2021 18:03:33 +0000 bhommels Posted By: djh
Posted By: Simon StillI'd struggle to think of anything to add

More PV! That's what I mean by RE bling. AIUI you can just add more PV until you get an A rating.
Easy! A good few years ago you "had to" add a wind turbine to get to an A rating.]]> Energy Performance Certificates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=287995#Comment_287995 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=287995#Comment_287995 Wed, 10 Mar 2021 09:57:43 +0000 Simon Still Posted By: bhommels

Easy! A good few years ago you "had to" add a wind turbine to get to an A rating.


That's the sort of nonsense I was remembering.]]> Energy Performance Certificates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=288000#Comment_288000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=288000#Comment_288000 Wed, 10 Mar 2021 13:52:24 +0000 WillInAberdeen
It also recommended IWI or EWI for £14k, despite that I'd already fitted IWI, and ditto with the projected annual savings vs borrowing cost.

It recommended replacement DG and projected the cost would be only £1400, for a large farmhouse with big windows and a sunroom. (!)

It recommended both solar thermal and PV, despite being shaded by big trees to the south.

I complained about it all, but was assured that it didn't matter, as none of the prospective buyers would care, which they didn't.

There are many causes of this baloney, one of which is that rdSAP hasn't been updated since 2012 AIUI. Another is that the surveyors are paid peanuts (Lloyd take note!). Another is that there is zero comeback against the surveyors if the certificate is pants.]]> Energy Performance Certificates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=288001#Comment_288001 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=288001#Comment_288001 Wed, 10 Mar 2021 14:43:08 +0000 SimonD Posted By: WillInAberdeen Another is that the surveyors are paid peanuts (Lloyd take note!).

I just saw you can take a 3 day online course to become a domestic energy assessor. Says it all really.]]> Energy Performance Certificates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=288003#Comment_288003 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=288003#Comment_288003 Wed, 10 Mar 2021 15:47:21 +0000 Ed Davies Energy Performance Certificates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=288010#Comment_288010 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=288010#Comment_288010 Wed, 10 Mar 2021 19:55:00 +0000 jms452 Posted By: djhThat's why a revenue neutral tax where the proceeds are paid back to the population on a per-head basis is attractive.

+1]]> Energy Performance Certificates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=288014#Comment_288014 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=288014#Comment_288014 Wed, 10 Mar 2021 20:42:12 +0000 djh Posted By: Ed DaviesI wonder, could anybody bring a defamation case against the government over an EPC? A class action?
What, my feelings are hurt that my house is considered average? :devil:]]> Energy Performance Certificates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=288015#Comment_288015 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=288015#Comment_288015 Wed, 10 Mar 2021 20:49:22 +0000 WillInAberdeen
You'd have to show that you had suffered a loss as a result of the EPC, which to be fair I didn't.]]> Energy Performance Certificates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=288021#Comment_288021 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=288021#Comment_288021 Thu, 11 Mar 2021 14:36:18 +0000 Ed Davies Posted By: WillInAberdeenYou'd have to show that you had suffered a loss as a result of the EPC, which to be fair I didn't.Indeed, it's only the fact that almost nobody takes any notice of the EPC which saves them.]]> Energy Performance Certificates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=288026#Comment_288026 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=288026#Comment_288026 Thu, 11 Mar 2021 16:38:52 +0000 Peter_in_Hungary Posted By: Ed DaviesIndeed, it's only the fact that almost nobody takes any notice of the EPC which saves them.
Until they start hauling landlords over the coals for renting sub-standard properties based on EPCs that are inherently flawed.]]> Energy Performance Certificates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=288057#Comment_288057 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=288057#Comment_288057 Sat, 13 Mar 2021 08:34:16 +0000 Dominic Cooney No Renewable Energy Bling.

There were still some vagaries with it though. I was present with the assessor to provide any points of clarification if needed, along with a full set of constructional section drawings laid out to explain levels of insulation throughout.
He still managed to assume that:
- some of the downlighters were Halogen (all the lighting was LED)
- that there was an uninsulated loft space (the whole of the first floor was vaulted ceilings and shown as such on the plans)

also we got marked down a bit I think on CO2 because the stove was technically a multi-fuel model even though we only burnt wood on it.

After I received it, I followed it up with him to get the errors corrected, he said he could not change it and that I was the only person ever to have questioned an EPC or shown any interest whatsoever. This was 2013 or 2014.

I noticed a few years later that the builder we sold it to had another EPC done which was a G - no insulation, presumably to support his application for the RHI on a Biomass Boiler system.]]> Energy Performance Certificates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=288058#Comment_288058 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=288058#Comment_288058 Sat, 13 Mar 2021 08:36:03 +0000 Dominic Cooney Energy Performance Certificates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=288059#Comment_288059 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=288059#Comment_288059 Sat, 13 Mar 2021 08:39:14 +0000 Dominic Cooney Energy Performance Certificates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=288060#Comment_288060 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16953&Focus=288060#Comment_288060 Sat, 13 Mar 2021 09:42:14 +0000 Artiglio But its a pretty futile exercise, when you have tenants that generally only know one setting for the heating and that. When the Dial is at “11” and they can swan around all day in shorts and a t shirt regulating room temperature via open windows.
The learning thermostats required to meet boiler+ are beyond the interest of most tennants who will never bother to learn how to use them. I refuse to programme them having learnt the hard way that if i do it is assumed that its my responsibilty to make every adjustment ever required.
None have any concept of budgeting and are amazed that the winter bills are much higher than the summer ones, having no idea of what their annual energy spend is.
However though i may be giving HMG too much credit, forcing private landlords to improve energy efficiencies costs the taxpayer little ( won’t do tenants any good though) and there are enough properties out there in the rented sector to allow the retrofit industry to grow and mature in a natural manner rather than be a wild west industry based on goverment subsidy, so hopefully by 2028 real life lessons will have been learnt and practical solutions to energy efficiency improvements then ready for the owner occupier sector.]]>