Green Building Forum - Ohio train crash

Ohio train crash

chrisinbrighton — Tue, 14 Feb 2023 21:15:38 +0000

Can anyone explain why this massively polluting and dangerous incident from a few days ago has had no media coverage.

Ohio train crash

borpin — Tue, 14 Feb 2023 21:29:30 +0000

Depends if you think The Guardian is MSM

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/feb/11/ohio-train-derailment-wake-up-call

Deliberate phosgene and hydrogen chloride plume - mmm.

Ohio train crash

Mike1 — Wed, 15 Feb 2023 11:15:01 +0000

It's had coverage on multiple channels in France. For example:

https://www.leprogres.fr/faits-divers-justice/2023/02/04/un-train-de-produit-chimique-deraille-et-provoque-un-gigantesque-incendie

Ohio train crash

chrisinbrighton — Wed, 15 Feb 2023 21:20:19 +0000

Nothing from the BBC i could see and the Gurdian articles i could only find by search engines.

Ohio train crash

WillInAberdeen — Wed, 15 Feb 2023 23:10:37 +0000

Today there was a road tanker crash and fire right outside a primary school at dropoff time. By good fortune the school was closed today. It took nine fire engines to put out the fire and the driver was badly injured.

https://news.stv.tv/north/tanker-flips-over-and-bursts-into-flames-as-fire-crews-rush-to-scene-in-banff-aberdeenshire

I suspect this hasn't made the news headlines outside of Aberdeenshire?

Generally I understand that rail transport for dangerous goods is safer than road transport (fewer crashes per mile), but there are strong psychological reasons why we get less bothered about road accidents than we are about rail accidents.

Ohio train crash

Mike1 — Thu, 16 Feb 2023 11:11:50 +0000

Posted By: chrisinbrightonNothing from the BBC i could see

They seem to have several reports, but maybe didn't make it to the broadcast news:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=ohio+train+site%3Abbc.co.uk

Ohio train crash

Peter_in_Hungary — Thu, 16 Feb 2023 11:13:20 +0000

There is also a matter of scale, A tanker lorry going in a ditch is one thing a train load of tanker wagons falling off the rails is altogether a different ball game.

Ohio train crash

WillInAberdeen — Thu, 16 Feb 2023 12:09:22 +0000

That's one of the psychological problems humans have assessing risks - our attention is drawn to 'big' things and things that are 'unusual,' rather than things that we experience frequently (and so are a greater cumulative risk to us).

A tanker lorry crashing and burning a few yards from the entrance gate of a primary school, at the time all the kids would normally be arriving, is a scale that we can relate to, we see tanker lorries and primary schools every day. So our brains dial down on the risk that dozens of kids could have been hurt and it's not news-worthy.

But a tanker train releasing phosgene is something none of us see every day, so our brains lock in on it and tell us the risk is very great, even if the risk is reduced in proportion to the infrequency that it happens.

Overall, big-but-unusual risks are less acceptable to us than mundane-everday risks, even though most of us are going to die of something mundane.

See also: societal tolerance of hundreds of cycling deaths vs intolerance of the same number of air-crash deaths.

and societal tolerance of millions of air pollution deaths from fossil power stations vs intolerance of fire risk from lithium battery cars.

Ohio train crash

djh — Thu, 16 Feb 2023 13:32:47 +0000

I think the real question is about American politics and why they permit trains to be used instead of mandating a pipeline. And probably where the ultimate destination is - maybe a ship to Europe because of reduced supply from Russia, etc etc?

Ohio train crash

WillInAberdeen — Thu, 16 Feb 2023 14:11:55 +0000

Happens here too

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/report-012022-derailment-and-fire-involving-a-tanker-train-at-llangennech-carmarthenshire

"At about 23:04 hrs on 26 August 2020, train 6A11, the 21:52 hrs service from Robeston (Milford Haven) to [Reading], conveying 25 laden tank wagons, derailed near Llangennech, in Carmarthenshire. The derailment and the consequent damage to the wagons resulted in a significant spillage of fuel and a major fire. The driver, who was unhurt, reported the accident to the signaller. Subsequent examination of the site found that ten wagons (positioned third to twelfth in the train) had derailed, and that around 446,000 litres of fuel had escaped.

The spilled fuel caused major damage to the environment in an area which is both a site of special scientific interest (SSSI) and a special area of conservation (SAC), including cockle beds, natural tidal mud flats and wetlands."

Edit: and the 'biggest peacetime explosion" was from an oil pipeline filling a storage tank at Buncefield fuller than it should. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buncefield_fire
So though pipelines are safer than trains which are safer than lorries AIUI, we pay more attention to pipeline and train accidents than lorry crashes.

Ohio train crash

bxman — Fri, 24 Feb 2023 21:18:25 +0000

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5D2LA-Llyc
Juan Browne does his normal informative quality report with additional comprehensive information in the
comments section

Ohio train crash

WillInAberdeen — Mon, 27 Feb 2023 18:11:57 +0000

Posted By: WillInAberdeen"train conveying 25 laden tank wagons, derailed in Carmarthenshire. The derailment and the consequent damage to the wagons resulted in a significant spillage of fuel and a major fire"

So it seems the Swansea line was closed for many months while the contaminated ground was dealt with. When it eventually reponed, the very first train of 23 fuel tank wagons was damaged while passing over the newly reopened line and went on to cause accidents, it broke up the track but by good luck it didn't derail. Four other trains were also damaged on subsequent days, including other fuel oil trains.

So it doesn't seem confidence inspiring about hazardous goods trains in UK either.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/report-032023-track-damage-between-pencoed-and-llanharan

Ohio train crash

fostertom — Tue, 28 Feb 2023 11:28:00 +0000

Posted By: djhthe real question is about American politics and why they permit

... whatever. Go on - why do they?

Ohio train crash

WillInAberdeen — Tue, 28 Feb 2023 12:51:46 +0000

The same things that Welsh politics also permit? (Ref accident reports above)

Though TBF the Carmarthenshire accident involved a French-built wagon with Swedish brakes maintained in UK, Luxembourg and Germany with Belgian regulatory oversight, and operated on UK railways by the UK arm of a German company under international rail transit agreements. So its difficult to say exactly whose electorates are responsible.

Ohio train crash

fostertom — Tue, 28 Feb 2023 16:05:24 +0000

Posted By: WillInAberdeenSo its difficult to say exactly whose electorates are responsible.

As intended!