Green Building Forum - Wifi controlled switch/socket Tue, 19 Dec 2023 04:19:34 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303536#Comment_303536 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303536#Comment_303536 Tue, 26 Sep 2023 20:45:57 +0100 Artiglio
I’ve a house not far from me that likes an evening firepit / bonfire, which when it’s either still or wind blows the wrong way ends up with smoke sucked in through my MVHR, this situation never occurred to me when the wiring was done and the only way to switch it off wothout going into the loft is from the consumer unit but this also isolates another room.
Plus I usually switch it off i house is going to be empty for more than a couple of days. It’d handy to have a more convenient way of turning it off. The simplest would be a wifi controllable switch/ sockett via an app. Plus i’d have the bonus of being able to turn it back on before i get home.

Plenty of options out there, anyone have any experience/ recommendations.

Many thanks phil]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303537#Comment_303537 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303537#Comment_303537 Tue, 26 Sep 2023 21:01:58 +0100 djh
They have two brands - Kasa and Tapo. AFAICT the hardware is identical but they have slightly different firmware. There's also the energy-monitoring version, which I have, and the plain smart plug. Tapo is a bit cheaper but not necessarily worse. I have a KP115 and a P110.]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303538#Comment_303538 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303538#Comment_303538 Tue, 26 Sep 2023 21:12:21 +0100 Artiglio
https://www.airconcentre.co.uk/products/timeguard-wi-fi-controlled-fused-spur-tuya-edition-fstwifitu?variant=39685254054021&om=13062&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9tWRlYrJgQMVTeBRCh12TwBvEAQYASABEgKtnfD_BwE

But even sticking a plug on it and using a unit like yours would be cheaper and have more choice.

Thanks]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303539#Comment_303539 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303539#Comment_303539 Tue, 26 Sep 2023 22:10:41 +0100 WillInAberdeen
We don't have a 13A-capable circuit in the loft, only a lighting circuit, and it was problematic getting a 13A socket fitted up there to plug in some low wattage comms gear.

If this is an issue then a wifi FCU as you linked could be the solution, or see if the MHRV manufacturer has a bolt-on WiFi controller that can do remote boosting/humidistat/monitoring etc as well as on-off.]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303542#Comment_303542 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303542#Comment_303542 Tue, 26 Sep 2023 22:50:47 +0100 djh Posted By: ArtiglioThanks , currently its hardwired into an fcu and i was thinking more along the lines of something likeAh OK. I have a couple of Timeguard FCUs of an older design - just digital timeswitches - and they work fine. One of them failed a few years ago and Timeguard replaced it under warranty without a problem.]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303543#Comment_303543 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303543#Comment_303543 Wed, 27 Sep 2023 08:30:27 +0100 borpin
If you are after the mini socket type, I'd suggest and ESPHome or Tasmota versions on AliExpress. The propriety ones (that force a specific App on you) are just a PITA.

Posted By: WillInAberdeenNot a sparky myself, but I think technically if you fit a 13A socket in place of the FCU, then the supply cable and MCB are supposed to be suitable for 13A (or some such)
I certainly have some UK type sockets wired into a smaller MCB for low load areas (done by the sparky). I'd forgotten and popped one the other week plugging in a too high a load. On the basis he did it, I'd think it was acceptable for the regs.]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303544#Comment_303544 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303544#Comment_303544 Wed, 27 Sep 2023 08:45:44 +0100 Artiglio The vent axia sentinel could have been supplied with wifi control , but as it was a full rewire and everything was open i went for the wired controller, i’ve had a quick read online and don’t immediately see an add on that does anything different to the wired controller. The unit has a built in humidistat which works well on those occasions i forget to hit the boost switches that are wired in for the “wet areas”.
Must be said that whilst i’ve no previous experience of mvhr nor had i lived in the house before it was fitted , i’m happy with how its all turned out , once everything is eventually finished ( there’s a second mvhr system for the other part of the house ( awkward layout and poor planning meant 2 systems was by far the easiest way forward))
I’ll have a play with the various settings if needed. The possible need to switch on and off without accessing the unit was something i overlooked.
This winter should be the first proper test of everything as things are now substantially complete in terms of insulation , heating, etc. Hopefully all the effort will be worthwhile and bills manageable.]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303547#Comment_303547 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303547#Comment_303547 Wed, 27 Sep 2023 10:11:14 +0100 WillInAberdeen
The event you mentioned (the MCB tripping before the plug fuse had blown) is not 'selectively coordinated', but IDK if that's dangerous or just inconvenient or just 'not how the regs do it now'. Think it's not uncommon.

We ended up with a 1A FCU added off the lighting circuit, feeding into a 13A socket with the 0.1A electronics plugged into that, and a big sticker on it about not plugging anything else in. Apparently the presence of the socket means that the lighting circuit now requires a RCD and tested earth resistance, but we had those anyway.

Sounds like Artiglio is covered either way, smart idea to have socket circuits run everywhere.]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303551#Comment_303551 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303551#Comment_303551 Wed, 27 Sep 2023 11:17:46 +0100 WillInAberdeen
What is the present view on controlling switches over the home wi-fi rather than using 433mhz radio remote control switches?

I have some WiFi controlled devices (kid's multicolour lighting) which are a pain whenever I change ISP and get a new router (despite doing my best to make the new WiFi network look and feel identical) and I think some will stop being supported long before they physically wear out. Whereas the 433mhz stuff just seems to keep working.]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303554#Comment_303554 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303554#Comment_303554 Wed, 27 Sep 2023 12:03:19 +0100 Peter_in_Hungary Posted By: WillInAberdeen(the MCB tripping before the plug fuse had blown)
Not too unusual as the plug fuse is a melt the wire jobbie and a lot less sensitive than a MCB - specially if the MCB is a bit old and tired.
Also don't forget that the purpose of a fuse is to protect the upstream wiring so having a 13A plug with an e.g. 5A MCB protecting the upstream wiring won't pose any safety issues.]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303555#Comment_303555 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303555#Comment_303555 Wed, 27 Sep 2023 12:30:26 +0100 WillInAberdeen
You can get different classes of MCB that trip faster or slower so that you can tweak this, iiuc.

The purpose of the MCB is to react to an unsafe situation (a fault overcurrent in the house wiring) and make it safe. The householder simply plugging in an appliance, should not be enough of an event to create an unsafe situation in the house wiring.

I certainly don't claim to know the regs or understand the consequences of breaking them! Better explanation here
https://learntechnique.com/selectivity-backup-protection-whats-difference/

"Discrimination (Selectivity), is defined in Part 2 Definitions as, ‘Ability of a protective device to operate in preference to another protective device in series’.

"The purpose of selectivity is to isolate a part of an electrical installation with a fault condition from the rest of the installation such that only the protective device located immediately on the supply side of the fault operates to disconnect the supply.

"The traditional means of achieving selectivity are by current or by time.

Current selectivity utilises overload or fault current while time selectivity uses devices with different trip time settings."

"Selectivity is achieved when the pre-arcing I²t of the upstream device is less than the total energy let-through I²t of the downstream device. In plain English – this means that the smaller fuse must complete its operation before the larger fuse reaches its melting point. "

(and theres a lot more after that!).]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303556#Comment_303556 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303556#Comment_303556 Wed, 27 Sep 2023 12:36:30 +0100 Artiglio However that said a conversation with the metwork emgineer that upgraded the incoming fuse among other subjects raised the suggestion that the push for surge and arc protection was ( in his view) part of the preparation for a more “dynamic” grid , where there was a greater chance of fluctuations in supply and external control of things such as car chargers , smart meters etc. Again his view was that there were way too many unknows around future electric generation , supply and use along with so many suppliers of appliances / chargers / fixed electrical systems that the installation regs were going to keep changing on a pretty regular basis.
The performance variance between kit from different manufacturers is considerable, and whilst not mixing rcbos etc within a consumer unit makes sense , i’ve had issues with sensitivity of breakers in seperate consumer units in workshop and garden rooms not tripping when they should. Apparently modern wylex kit is shunned by electricians these days as its proved to be so variable.]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303562#Comment_303562 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303562#Comment_303562 Wed, 27 Sep 2023 20:37:11 +0100 djh Posted By: WillInAberdeen20A MCB on a socket circuit,I think it's normal to have a 32 A MCB because sockets are normally wired on ring mains. They're type B.

The sparky that wired our house told me that the current fashion for metal consumer units was the wrong answer to a problem. The problem was that plastic CUs had been catching fire, so the legal solution was to introduce fireproof metal CUs to keep the fire contained. He said they'd ignored the cause, which was that a previous change in regs had removed the necessity for two screws on each terminal connection. So every poor connection was now likely to start a fire, whereas previously you had to had two failures (or poorly executed tightening of screws) on a single connection before there was a fire risk. So his view was that the sensible move would have been to reverse the previous decision, but when are politics and committees ever sensible?!]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303566#Comment_303566 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303566#Comment_303566 Wed, 27 Sep 2023 22:21:49 +0100 WillInAberdeen
We have an 18th-Ed steel consumer unit with a fireproof front, top, bottom and sides. However the back has a big hole where all the circuits run out from it, which is open to the wall void and up into the first floor. Made sense to somebody...]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303578#Comment_303578 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303578#Comment_303578 Thu, 28 Sep 2023 10:55:17 +0100 Artiglio Things that were seen as good practice then are no longer seen as such, the daftest move is that with split load boards lighting circuits previously were not protected by RCD or RCBO as it was comsidered that a householder moving round in the dark because a blown bulb tripped the circuit was a greater risk than that presented by lighting circuits. Similarly it used to be common to connect smoke alarm circuits to the lighting circuit as then people couldn’t turn them off without turning off the lights and so would be more inclined to deal with faulty alarms.

The point about going from double to single screw commections is repeated by every electrician i meet and alledgedly the change was the result of pressure from the manufacturers looking to save a few pennies and who at the time demonstrated that single screw terminals tested perfectly well, but no one looked into how they performed a couple of years later after being subjected to thermal changes/ movement. They all say going back to w screw terminals would be far better ( as it would prevent most of the instances of fire) rather than use a metal enclosure to stop the fire spreading, but the industry costs of retooling to change to 2 screws meant it was seen as preferrable to go for cheaper metal enclosures. The entry points to the consumer unit should be protected with intumescent materials.

The EIRC is only valid for 5 years, which passes fast and the regs similarly change just as fast, as a result no one does anything that they really don’t have to for fear of needing yet another change 5 years later.

There are those in the background quietly pushing for EICR’s being required for mortgage and insurance compliance, but this would mean huge disruption for many sales of properties other than relatively new ones , the do,estic electrical industry struggled to cope with the rented sectors when the requirement came in ( and still does on the 5 year renewals) they’d have no chance of covering for al domestic properties.

And if you talk to a fireman they’ll tell you that the risks of a fire from a fixed electrical installation are really quite small and that there’d be much greater benefit to doing something about cheap electrical appliances/ chargers and educating the general public. Being called out to a fire started by someone charging their phone/ laptop/ tablet from an extension block that’s under the pillow is apparently not uncommon. One even saiid that legislating that all charging leads were a 2m minimum length would make a significant difference.]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303579#Comment_303579 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303579#Comment_303579 Thu, 28 Sep 2023 11:19:58 +0100 WillInAberdeen Posted By: Peter_in_Hungarythe MCB tripping before the plug fuse had blown [is] not too unusual as plug fuse is a melt the wire jobbie and a lot less sensitive than a MCBLearned something new to me today - socket MCBs are deliberately made less sensitive than plug fuses, for good reason:

- the MCB's magnetic cutout is set to only detect the very large currents during a full short circuit, 3-5x rating for a Type B, eg 100A+ for socket circuits and 20A+ for lighting

- its separate bimetal (thermal) cutout detects moderately-overloaded circuits and trip 'slowly' - after many seconds or minutes.


A plug fuse doesn't have those two separate mechanisms so melts for any size of overload or fault, above 1.9x its rating


eg tripping times at 30A:

B32 MCB : doesn't trip
B20 MCB : 2-5 minutes
13A plug fuse : 1 second
B6 MCB : 0.005 seconds
(taken from the curves in the wiring regs)

So an overloaded 13A plug will blow its fuse first, well before the MCB trips in a socket circuit - this is the correct Selectivity per the regs. But not in a lighting circuit.


As above - I'm not an electrician and don't know how much this all matters!

And if the kit that is installed isn't up to spec, then all bets are off as Artiglio said.]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303582#Comment_303582 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303582#Comment_303582 Thu, 28 Sep 2023 13:47:37 +0100 Mike1 Posted By: Artigliothe industry costs of retooling to change to 2 screws meant it was seen as preferrable to go for cheaper metal enclosures.Or is it protectionism (metal enclosures shut out the plastic CUs from European manufacturers)?

Posted By: ArtiglioThe simplest would be a wifi controllable switch/ sockett via an app.
Don't have one myself, but maybe take a look at the Shelly Plus 1 - https://shellystore.co.uk/product/shelly-plus-1/]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303583#Comment_303583 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303583#Comment_303583 Thu, 28 Sep 2023 13:48:42 +0100 Peter_in_Hungary Posted By: ArtiglioThe EIRC is only valid for 5 years, which passes fast and the regs similarly change just as fast, as a result no one does anything that they really don’t have to for fear of needing yet another change 5 years later.
Are you saying that properties needing an EIRC every 5 years have to have the electrics brought up to the standard of the day, rather than in good working order to the standard of the date of installation? If so it is just as well that other items don't need updating to the current standard every 5 years, e.g. house foundations, insulation of wall and windows, car MOTs to name but a few.

Over here new installations or repairs need to be to the current regs but existing can stay until it fails.]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303588#Comment_303588 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303588#Comment_303588 Thu, 28 Sep 2023 19:18:52 +0100 revor Posted By: djhThe sparky that wired our house told me that the current fashion for metal consumer units was the wrong answer to a problem. The problem was that plastic CUs had been catching fire, so the legal solution was to introduce fireproof metal CUs to keep the fire contained. He said they'd ignored the cause, which was that a previous change in regs had removed the necessity for two screws on each terminal connection. So every poor connection was now likely to start a fire, whereas previously you had to had two failures (or poorly executed tightening of screws) on a single connection before there was a fire risk. So his view was that the sensible move would have been to reverse the previous decision, but when are politics and committees ever sensible?!

I totally agree with your electrician. When the problem of consumer units catching fire, mainly in London came to my attention I was curious enough to do some digging. To my mind a metal consumer unit did not prevent fires just contained it a bit longer. I found a relationship between the number of installs of smart meters with number of fires in consumer units in London. The move to metal consumer units was as a result (as far as I can make out) of pressure from the London fire service. The solution was total anathema to me having worked in an industry where structured problem solving and prevention was the norm to solve issues. Having done quite a bit of electrical work over the years I was aware of changes in materials and equipment. DJH has already mentioned one, the number of terminal screws securing the tails which used to be 2 becoming one but that alone is not sufficient to explain the poor connection that gives rise to overheating and combustion. Over the years the number of strands of wire in meter tails has diminished quite markedly and have become thicker. The tails are not as flexible and can be awkward to get a good fix in the CU terminals. The copper does not compress as much so making a poorer contact (There has thankfully been a move to more flexible tails with increased number of strands though not anywhere like some 30/40 years ago, but at extra expense). So where does the smart meters come into the equation. The meter installers are not trained electricians they have been trained to work safely and change the meter. This means juggling with stiff meter tails that wag about and work loose in the CU. They are not permitted to access the CU tails connection (only the meter end) which perhaps a trained electrician would the CU connection. There may well be other factors also involved such possibility as an increased occupancy of premises putting an extra load on the CU.]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303590#Comment_303590 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303590#Comment_303590 Thu, 28 Sep 2023 20:02:20 +0100 revor Posted By: Peter_in_HungaryAre you saying that properties needing an EIRC every 5 years have to have the electrics brought up to the standard of the day, rather than in good working order to the standard of the date of installation? If so it is just as well that other items don't need updating to the current standard every 5 years, e.g. house foundations, insulation of wall and windows, car MOTs to name but a few.


As I understand it the regulations found in the BS7671 edition that was in force at time of installation is what is applied. E.g. I wired our house with plastic CU and it was just before the new regulation appertaining to metal consumer units came into force. (Amendment 3 17 edition) When I was inspected the inspector worked to the regulations that appertained when I did the install. (Amendment 2 17th edition) even though amendment 3. (17th edition) was in force.
Now if I had EIRC now and something badly wrong with the CU and had to be replaced then the new regulations now 18th edition would apply so would need a metal consumer unit. If the RCD needed replacing just that would be replaced not the CU.
When an EIRC is done and faults are picked up and need repair or replacing then 18th edition would apply to the work. Depending on the severity of what is found then the installation could be condemned and isolated from use or a circuit isolated etc. The inspector gives codes to the problem found depending on the severity with reference to the part of the regulation that has been breached.
Main codes are C1 C2 C3 plus other information codes. C1 is worst dangerous installation fails.]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303596#Comment_303596 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303596#Comment_303596 Fri, 29 Sep 2023 01:09:22 +0100 Artiglio I had a flat that at some point prior to my buying it had had a radial piggy backed to a ring circuit, no one had an orignal new breaker for the existing consumer unit that had plenty of space , i could get a secondhand one, but electrician wouldn’t fit it, i could have but then he wouldn’t retest and sign it off. So i’d have to risk getting another electrician and see what they picked up. As a result i end up with a new consumer unit and a £650 bill.

In other flats , i have different recommendations which can be “left on record” if i were to spend the money and get it changed , i run the risk of it also being unsatisfactory in 10 years , so better to only do what you really have to. Onviously there are those who have greater risk aversion and do everything. I take the view that my installations are safer than anything more than 20 years old and untested and i’ve complied with the legislation.

Previously landlords only had the duty to ensure the electrical systems were safe, for me that meant using a basic socket test device, checking the trips in the consumer unit and a walk round the flat checking the sockets and faceplates. It was no uncommon to find that overseas tenants had forced something into the earth connector to enable them to get a 2 pin plug into the socket, sockets that had overheatet and brocken faceplates. The worst thing i found was a tenant who’d got another fridge feezer, plugged both into an extension block , wrapped the excess cable round an aluminium walking stick that stood between the two fridge freezers and then filled the rest of the space between them with old carriers bags and packaging. They had no comprehension of how dangerous it was and felt i was being unreasonable when i unplugged it all.

Landlords with the freehold of flats, also have the common area installation to get tested , which as it is deemed a commercial installation doesn’t fall under the training of all electricians. Similarly if you have a hardwired fire alarm system that covers the common areas and often a heat detector just inside each flat door ( not a requirement under building regs in most buildings, but i had installed as i felt that no protection for the common areas or flats that may be unoccupied was not a good idea, means a 6 monthly test and as (again) it’s deemed commercial , technically you are meant to have a weekly test of random call points and the alarm bells, which cost aside is hardly reasonable for a domestic setting in the days of shift working. Fortunately it’s something to which a blind eye is turned or else people would just remove the systems and rely on the heat/ smoke alarms required in each flat.

WIA - your post goes over my head , if I haven’t understood it before the sparky is back , i’ll ask him to explain it.]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303600#Comment_303600 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303600#Comment_303600 Fri, 29 Sep 2023 10:06:29 +0100 djh Posted By: ArtiglioI had a flat that at some point prior to my buying it had had a radial piggy backed to a ring circuitSpurs off a ring main are legal though aren't they? (subject to some restrictions)

WRT to lighting safety, we have our lights protected by RCDs. We have separate upstairs and downstairs circuits, with the hall circuits on the opposite circuit, so if the upstairs lights go off the landing lights stay on and if the downstairs lights go off the lobby lights stay on. I thought that was pretty standard? But in any case a power cut turns off ALL the lights, so everybody keeps a torch in the bedroom, no? So I'm convinced the committee has wasted its time!]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303603#Comment_303603 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303603#Comment_303603 Fri, 29 Sep 2023 11:17:53 +0100 Artiglio
But must be said whilst i try to understand what is done and why, the detail is why i use a proper electrician these days it’s all way beyond diy stuff for me.

As for the lighting circuits, a few of the flats have a bedroom up a flight of stairs, i’ll take a look next time i’m in one and see if its wired as you suggest, the other flats are small and all on one level so i doubt they’d have split lighting circuits. They were done 2002/4 so not sure what the norm was then. I’d hazard a guess most people have a mobile by their bed and that would be there torch if needed.]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303605#Comment_303605 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303605#Comment_303605 Fri, 29 Sep 2023 12:43:42 +0100 djh Posted By: ArtiglioI’d hazard a guess most people have a mobile by their bed and that would be there torch if needed.Yes, could well be. Personally I wouldn't have a mobile by my bed even if you paid me! :devil:]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303607#Comment_303607 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303607#Comment_303607 Fri, 29 Sep 2023 13:39:16 +0100 WillInAberdeen
Lighting circuits are still sized on the assumption that all the fittings are 100W incandescent (0.4A), so each 6A lighting circuit can only serve so many rooms. Now that everyone uses LEDs, there shouldn't be any problems with a single lighting circuit covering a big house, if the regs moved on..!]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303611#Comment_303611 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303611#Comment_303611 Fri, 29 Sep 2023 17:54:59 +0100 djh
"Most houses have at least two lighting circuits - usually one upstairs and one down."]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303614#Comment_303614 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303614#Comment_303614 Fri, 29 Sep 2023 20:54:58 +0100 WillInAberdeen
If it did come from somewhere official, then change isn't a problem,
if the regs moved on..!

Edit - the you-can-do-it-shop's article explains their opinion is based on customers using "a 100W bulb at every outlet". It's been many years since they stopped selling 100W bulbs in there! :bigsmile:]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303616#Comment_303616 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303616#Comment_303616 Sat, 30 Sep 2023 08:32:13 +0100 Peter_in_Hungary Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303618#Comment_303618 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303618#Comment_303618 Sat, 30 Sep 2023 09:38:11 +0100 djh
My point with the unattributed quotes was simply that having two lighting circuits is indeed a common, and IMHO sensible, arrangement. I would not like to live somewhere with only a single lighting circuit.]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303621#Comment_303621 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303621#Comment_303621 Sat, 30 Sep 2023 19:41:22 +0100 revor I just found the appended reference which has a very good photograph of and install within a meter box. So far have only skimmed the document as what I read was elsewhere in a magazine and needed a reference that the forum could access.
https://electrical.theiet.org/wiring-matters/years/2022/89-march-2022/insulation-piercing-connectors/]]>