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Building Regulations and Standards: New build checking on building quality.

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  1.  
    • CommentAuthorGareth J
    • CommentTimeJun 29th 2021 edited
     
    My sister has just moved into a new build, yesterday. Building was finished probably hours before and presumably rushed at every stage.

    They are of course, currently, tired and excited so not necessarily looking for problems at this stage but sooner rather than later I'd like to try to help them check things have at least been done towards current building standards while there's, hopefully, some chance of recourse. I know the horror stories and that I'd be very hesitant to buy one but that wasn't my decision. I would like to help them ensure what they have bought isn't needlessly rubbish.

    Any useful resources? Or suggestions regarding sensible things to check?

    Many thanks in advance
    • CommentAuthorJonti
    • CommentTimeJun 29th 2021 edited
     
    I suppose it depends on how much they are willing to spend but the obvious route to me would be having someone qualified in building control check it out or at least a structural engineer to ensure it is sound. However, neither will be cheap.

    Edit: I would add that it is the big construction companies that cause the biggest concern. If the house has been built by one of the rare smaller companies they might be lucky.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJun 29th 2021
     
    Air tightness, visual inspections first, look at everything , hope for not dot and dabbed

    Thermal imaging survey

    Are drains connected and working?
    • CommentAuthorGareth J
    • CommentTimeJun 29th 2021
     
    It's probably prudent that I offer to look for obvious things in the first instance and if there's anything obviously wrong, go from there, exploring the independent inspection route. I had in mind to try to pick a breezy day, open a few windows facing away from the wind and take off some plug sockets to check for behind plasterboard breezes. Probably won't help me though as I suspect some will be deemed acceptable and I won't be able to measure.

    I don't know anything about the construction at this stage. Housebuilder is large enough to be doing a multi house estate but not one if the big name brands. (Name escapes me right now).
    • CommentAuthorJeff B
    • CommentTimeJun 29th 2021
     
    It's possible with a smaller developer that the build quality might be better. How many houses are they building on the estate?
  6.  
    check the loft for continuity and thickness of the insulation including at the eaves
    • CommentAuthorphiledge
    • CommentTimeJun 29th 2021
     
    Id start by engaging with your sister as to whether having just moved in they would be prepared for the disruption of having builders back in to do snagging/remedial works. If they arent prepared to move out or vacate sections of the house, theres no point in looking for problems.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJun 29th 2021 edited
     
    Posted By: philedgeId start by engaging with your sister as to whether having just moved in they would be prepared for the disruption of having builders back in to do snagging/remedial works. If they arent prepared to move out or vacate sections of the house, theres no point in looking for problems.

    I think that's an important point but expressed the wrong way round. If there's a problem that's serious enough and going to cause so much disruption that they'll need to move out temporarily, then it is IMHO very important that such a problem is found and fixed. Both for their own benefit and for the protection of their investment.

    So by all means mention the possibility that there may be some faults that might require drastic measures but persuade them of the necessity for that if things turn out that way.
    • CommentAuthorMike1
    • CommentTimeJun 29th 2021 edited
     
    If it's timber frame construction, then the presence (or otherwise) of cavity fire stops would also interest me. You'd need a boroscope survey to verify that.

    Some developers have had significant problems with this - Persimmon recently: https://www.thefpa.co.uk/news/arup-to-assist-persimmon-on-fire-safety
    • CommentAuthorGareth J
    • CommentTimeJun 29th 2021
     
    Thank you, some great points. In particular regarding what my sister would/wouldn't want to do.

    I'll find out who built them.
    • CommentAuthorHollyBush
    • CommentTimeJun 30th 2021
     
    Couple of suggestions:
    1 - google new build house snagging list or similar - might even be one on here, or find one and post here for review

    2 - ask the builder for details of their warranty scheme - who do you contact, when etc. The builder should have a process to address issues long after initial sale.

    Check the contract - IMHO If you need to move out, then that is a cost the builder should shoulder...
    • CommentAuthorGareth J
    • CommentTimeJul 2nd 2021
     
    Burrington estates.
    • CommentAuthorwookey
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2021
     
    It's hard to check much meaningful in a new-build. The one thing they _do_ do properly is superficailly cover everything up, so you can't easily check airtightness, presence of insulation in cavities, holes between joists or behind boxing, or at least not without making a mess.

    But look in back of kitchen cupboards/behind white goods for holes in the wall that are not airtight, check loft hatch seals properly. Try to get a look at the eaves from outside/inside (but probably covered in fluff and PVC trim).

    As you said a windy day is good and you can at least see if the window seals work, then complain that they've bought a _brand new_ house and it hasn't even got bloody triple glazing (they almost never do because our buildings regs are so pathetic), or MVHR, two basics of a decent house.
    • CommentAuthorGareth J
    • CommentTimeSep 24th 2021 edited
     
    We'll, I finally got around to seeing my sister in the new place, only briefly though so no time for anything significant but what a disappointment.

    Lots of things look done in a rush or badly or both. Little things like 1/2 of all door hinge screws cammed out and burred and laminate vinyl tiles that are rising where they meet.

    Had a brief look at heating. Gas boiler, small standard rads. Does have a pressurised hot water tank though which would be my preference over a combi. But what a disappointment no thought to switching to a heat pump, would require almost a complete refit.

    Boiler stat and tank stat both set to 65C. Bath and tap water scalding. So no TMV under there. I turned the tank stat back to 55 which has apparently improved bathtime. Makes me realise just how out of their comfort zone my sister and husband are with all this stuff!

    No MVHR, massive trickle vents everywhere. Though the windows and doors look decent quality.

    Will have to go back for a proper dig if it's welcome. They have a decent amount of warranty which is something.

    No MVHR
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeSep 24th 2021
     
    Posted By: Gareth Jlaminate vinyl tiles that are rising where they meet
    To be fair if it's a new build that's difficult to avoid. We have sheet vinyl on our kitchen floor and it has ridges in it now because the timber (well chipboard) floor underneath it has shrunk. We'll replace the cheap vinyl with something better and hopefully more eco-friendly at some point.

    Bath and tap water scalding.
    I think in a new house there's a requirement (building regs) for hot water to the bath to be under 48°C. I deliberately didn't fit a bath when we built for that reason, just ran the plumbing for one. I think the reqirement is ridiculuous since it means you can't top up the hot water in the bath. But they should be able to get one installed if they want.
    • CommentAuthorGareth J
    • CommentTimeSep 24th 2021
     
    Yea, I'd thought that TMVs on baths were a regulation after finding one on a bath in my folks recent converted little barn. A pain really for the reason you mentioned. But I just thought, if that's missing, wonder what else has been left out!
    • CommentAuthorrevor
    • CommentTimeSep 25th 2021
     
    My understanding of TMV is that is a must on new builds and a must in situations where there are vulnerable people like in care homes. Public buildings also and where members of the public might access e.g. toilets in a shop. Think it is a bit of over the top if you think that boiling water taps are allowed apparently been more people now attending A&E for scalding from these taps than there ever was previous. Bottom line though the valves are preventing babies and children being scalded by being put in a bath too hot.
    Thought I might have needed one on my refurbishment which was almost a new build BCO said did not apply in this situation. Later learned was covered anyway as my thermal store provides DHW via heat exchanger which controls the output temperature.
    Builders are always looking at bottom line and lot of the time they do not know the regs anyway. When my BCO called during our build he remarked that our MVHR was the first he had seen. Next time he called he said he had left me to got to next visit and came across another MVHR. except the builder had not understood their function they had trickle venst as well.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeSep 25th 2021
     
    Posted By: revorLater learned was covered anyway as my thermal store provides DHW via heat exchanger which controls the output temperature.
    Thermal stores are normally governed to 60°C, which is the limit for hot water distribution and in reverse, water must reach at least 50°C within 1 minute to prevent legionella. Baths have a stricter limit. They need a local TMV set at or below 48°C. But that only applies to new builds. Complicated and stupid IMHO like most of the water regs.

    Builders are always looking at bottom line and lot of the time they do not know the regs anyway.
    Not just builders sadly. The whole of the building industry and all those connected with running properties are ignorant and/or corrupt. Witness Grenfell.
    • CommentAuthorrevor
    • CommentTimeSep 26th 2021
     
    Posted By: djhThermal stores are normally governed to 60°C, which is the limit for hot water distribution and in reverse, water must reach at least 50°C within 1 minute to prevent legionella.

    My thermal store heated mainly by solar thermal (gas in winter) is set for 80 C max did not reach it this year but did last year. The water in it never sees the light of day the same water circulates through the boiler and UFH. When I draw hot water it comes from fresh cold feed through the heat exchanger the system senses that water is flowing and controls the flow of hot water from the store to the other side of the heat exchanger. The hotter the store the lower the flow. I confirmed recently that I can use this DHW for consumption and although we haven't yet, we do use it when blanching vegetables for freezing it save on the electricity bringing the water to the boil.
  20.  
    Posted By: revorMy thermal store heated mainly by solar thermal (gas in winter) is set for 80 C max did not reach it this year but did last year. The water in it never sees the light of day the same water circulates through the boiler and UFH. When I draw hot water it comes from fresh cold feed through the heat exchanger the system senses that water is flowing and controls the flow of hot water from the store to the other side of the heat exchanger. The hotter the store the lower the flow. I confirmed recently that I can use this DHW for consumption and although we haven't yet, we do use it when blanching vegetables for freezing it save on the electricity bringing the water to the boil.


    That's interesting because we are thinking of replacing our existing vented DHW tank with a thermal store heated in the summer using our existing solar thermal roof panel. When that is insufficient we would use our oil fired boiler. Would you mind telling me what make of TS you have and what size solar panel heat exchanger it has in it. It sounds as though your system is what we are aiming to achieve.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeSep 26th 2021
     
    Posted By: revorMy thermal store heated mainly by solar thermal (gas in winter) is set for 80 C max

    Sorry, I wasn't clear. :shamed: I meant the temperature of the output DHW heated by the thermal store, not the temperature of the thermal store itself. Yes, my thermal store gets as hot as I dare to store more solar heat. Ours is powered by PV panels rather than solar thermal though.

    I confirmed recently that I can use this DHW for consumption and although we haven't yet, we do use it when blanching vegetables for freezing it save on the electricity bringing the water to the boil.

    Yes I too use the DHW for things like that. Sadly SWMBO is the main cook and she hasn't yet been persuaded. In the kitchen we have a hot tap, which is softened water heated by the thermal store; we have the a cold tap, which is raw and very hard tap water; and we have a third tap, which is fed off the cold supply and fed through a couple of filters to remove the hardness and various pollutants. SWMBO uses the third tap for lots of things I happily use the hot tap for when she's not watching. The filters cost £30 every six months, versus £8 or so for softener salt.

    FWIW, our thermal store is a Gledhill, 250 L. Seems to be OK.
    • CommentAuthorrevor
    • CommentTimeSep 26th 2021
     
    Posted By: PeterStarckThat's interesting because we are thinking of replacing our existing vented DHW tank with a thermal store heated in the summer using our existing solar thermal roof panel. When that is insufficient we would use our oil fired boiler. Would you mind telling me what make of TS you have and what size solar panel heat exchanger it has in it. It sounds as though your system is what we are aiming to achieve.

    It is a Gledhill 350L OV Solar. Panels are Velux (no longer marketed in UK) 5 sq M. You can select the size of store depending on the size of panels you have. It has extra tapings if you have another source of heat e.g Wood burner. I used the wood burner tapings for my gas boiler as they are 28 mm the boiler tapings on the cylinder are 22m MM which I capped off. All sizes may not have the features of the big ones so check the specs carefully. We would top up if needed with the boiler about 10 mins of 27 kw is sufficient usually, we did that 2 or 3 times last summer but not this summer thought think we will this week.
  23.  
    Posted By: Gareth JBoiler stat and tank stat both set to 65C. Bath and tap water scalding. So no TMV under there. I turned the tank stat back to 55 which has apparently improved bathtime.



    Posted By: Gareth JMakes me realise just how out of their comfort zone my sister and husband are with all this stuff!

    Them and most of the UK population - which is why the building industry can get away with what they do.
  24.  
    Posted By: revorIt is a Gledhill 350L OV Solar. Panels are Velux (no longer marketed in UK) 5 sq M. You can select the size of store depending on the size of panels you have. It has extra tapings if you have another source of heat e.g Wood burner. I used the wood burner tapings for my gas boiler as they are 28 mm the boiler tapings on the cylinder are 22m MM which I capped off. All sizes may not have the features of the big ones so check the specs carefully. We would top up if needed with the boiler about 10 mins of 27 kw is sufficient usually, we did that 2 or 3 times last summer but not this summer thought think we will this week.


    Many thanks for your help.
    • CommentAuthorGareth J
    • CommentTimeSep 28th 2021
     
    To be clear, my sister has a normal pressurised DHW tank. So the water inside is what's used as HW to taps and therefore ought to be a reasonable temperature for legionella reasons. Though, being sealed, risk should be negligible really. I have a thermal store with a DHW coil/exchanger in it which is another thing. I was surprised to see both boiler stat and tank stat at 65C as would have imagined a slight differential might be required in order for the tank temp to be satisfied.

    Would be better efficiency wise to lower boiler temp a bit too I suppose but minimising legionella risk in the HW tank is I guess the limit.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeSep 28th 2021 edited
     
    Posted By: Gareth JI was surprised to see both boiler stat and tank stat at 65C as would have imagined a slight differential might be required in order for the tank temp to be satisfied.

    Perhaps they both have that as the default temperature and nobody's bothered to set them? But only one is going to be satisfied in any case; I don't think it matters which one.
    • CommentAuthorGareth J
    • CommentTimeSep 28th 2021
     
    Yea, maybe I guess. Suppose it would depend on how it was wired. Either way, should be ok at 55/65. Like you say, I reckon it's just that no one has even though about altering anything.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeSep 28th 2021
     
    Posted By: djhI don't think it matters which one.

    Thinking about it a little more, having two stats in series will provide some fault tolerance. I've no idea whether that would be deliberate or just by chance.
  29.  
    Normally the DHW takes precedence over the central heating, so if both are online, the DHW is heated until its stat is satisfied, then the diverter valve switches over to heating the radiators.

    For this to work, the DHW stat has to be set lower than the boiler stat, otherwise the DHW stat is never satisfied and so the boiler circulates continuously through the DHW tank and never through the CH.

    There should be a third safety stat which cuts the boiler if both the others fail.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeSep 28th 2021
     
    So it sounds like the stats have just been left at default and probably the DHW stat should be reduced by say 5°C. Is there a master stat on the central heating?

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