Probably not but we dont have to make decisions on purely financial grounds.

Most people who install solar do so in the knowledge that it i the right thing to do. Not because it stacks up in economic terms.

I agree, no chance of a decent financial payback if you fork out for an "approved" installer even with a grant. However, if you source your own panel and DIY install, or even pay a reputable local tradesman, I think solar thermal should give a reasonable return, particularly if you set the system up as a thermosiphon with the panel lower than the tank, therefore avoiding pumps and electrics etc. That is the way I would prefer to do it.

I think the grant system for micro renewables is now holdings things back rather than encouraging more rapid take up. Look at the mess they are making with the funding at the moment. ZEDFactory recon they can source equipment cheaper by buying direct in bulk from suppliers and bypassing the grant process altogether. Having accredited installers giving access to grant money smacks of "jobs for the boys" to me and I think it is preventing effective competition in the sector which would drive prices down and installations up. Of course, a carbon tax or TEQs would transform the economics of micro-renewables and render grants unnecessary.

Guest, I admire your confidence, but so far only the most hardcore greens are installing systems that significantly reduce their overall energy dependence. Solar panels and domestic turbines contribute a pretty small percentage of a home's annual energy needs.

Surely the point of payback is a measure of how effectively a piece of kit is doing it's job? Even at today's energy prices, there are significant savings to be made if you can install a system that tackles a home's overall demands. However, a lot of ecologically minded people seem to be waiting for the (as yet) mythical moment when energy prices surge to make marginal technologies worthwhile. Personally I feel that it would be a better bet to work to improve the technology rather than wait on something like peak oil to make change happen.

At present only solar hot water appears to offer any real benefit. Most other microgeneration technologies seem at best to be an expensive hobby rather than a genuine solution to the problems of energy demand and environmental impact.

Posted By: fostertom

Posted By: Tunathe (as yet) mythical moment when energy prices surge

Does anyone really still maintain hopes this won't happen?

The point is, when and how severe the change will be. Peak oil has been predicted for decades now, always in the next five years. I've no doubt it will come, but relying on it happening in the near term to encourage changes in attitude seems optimistic. Equally, there is an expectation that the other side of the peak will be a precipitous drop - which may or may not be true. Another possible outcome would be a steadily increasing squeeze on prices.

Predicting the future is a mugs game. It's interesting to wonder what happened to the first big wave of survivalists from the 70's - what has their quality of life been like, and how have they contributed to society whilst they have been waiting for the end to come? Responding well to the present is much more productive.

As I have stated previously I had a panel fitted last sept, it is now working great supply-ing 95% of our hot water

How do i work out how much energy it takes heat up 210ltr cylinder up.

yesterday Thursday it raised top of cylinder 20 degs and bottom 50 degs' the temp is now 67degs top and 66 bottom.

so I can go some way in working out my savings

cheers

give me a ring on 07791958983 look forward in hearing from you.

Guest (Paul) said: "but I'm interested in a couple of the ideas on this thread because I have a low roof on which I could put some panels which are below the hot water tank level, and is easily accessible. Does this mean I can just tee into the in/out pipes form the hot water tank (with valves) and leave the rest untouched (existing tank with gas boiler and immersion)? This reduces the cost considerably."

Not necessarily. Some say that you may be able to get awy without anti-freeze in evac tubes, but I wouldn't want to risk it. Thermosyphoning yes, but keep it indirect, I reckon. Thermosyphoning reckoned to be about 60% as efficient as pumped, as it is slower to 'make its mind up'. Running direct also can be a problem if you have hard water.

Solar heating systems works really well and are here to stay.
Even the cheapest solutions (old radiator painted black) work very well.
The expensive ones will take the fluid over 120 degrees C easily in the summer and over 40 degrees in the winter.
It provides independence , standby and back up, feel good factor and does not generate loads of paperwork (bills) etc.
The fuel is free for crying out loud. The whole subject of payback is a complete misnomer when it applies to renewables / sustainability.
There are no accurate comparisons even between conventional solutions such as gas boilers / electric immersion heaters etc which also incidently do not include the macro infrastructure and fuel running costs in their own figures.
After all an A rated energy fridge or boiler never pays back and in fact costs more over its life cycle to run than it does to buy.
This applies across the board, renewable and sustainable measures already exceed the performance of conventional solutions when like to like comparisons are able to be made. With SAP still using historic figures for fuel costs (half what they are now) and no agreed common format for including forward cost it is hard to illustrate that rather than just be limited to the payback debate these technologies can actually have yields.
Please dont let yourselves be sucked into the vortex of the payback conundrum it is your lifestyle choice and will make you feel good.
Agree with grant problem in that it appears to raise the overall cost, can confirm cost of imported products negate the need for the grant in the first place, If any one wants some 22pipe evacuated tube thermal collectors with header, 100l water tank, circulating pump and controller they can be purchased for less than 800 pounds.

regards

I have being thinking of solar hot water and need to decided if to fit in the future, because i am about to change my hot water system and am thinking of an instantancus boiler A rated, or to get an conventional boiler with a new tank and fit solar tubes to the system when money allows, by at £800 i could do it when fitting my new hot water system