As I understand it the EPC will carry on, good idea that.

From green building POV, the EPC's the important bit, tho in need of much sharpening-up - the rest of the HIP's welcome to die.

Yes, I agree, the EPC is a GoodThing (and an EU requirement) and I've been pointing out to friends renting/buying not to touch anything less than a D and indeed use the EPC as a bargaining point if need be.

(I had an EPC done on my own house (including air-pressure test) to help me identify what to work on and founf it very useful. I have no intention of moving for years.)

I also like the idea of the rest of the HIP as a future purchaser.

But I'm sure that it could all be done better if some effort was made.

Rgds

Damon

No as many vendors solicitors would not accept that HIP's was valid or done to their satisfaction. A very ill thought out system. They were only valid for 3 months anyway, so often one had to be done twice during one sale.

You and Yours on R4 has just stated that EPCs will stay, and the Minister suggested that the redundant former 'HIP-assemblers' could re-train as EPC inspectors. I bet they will be delighted to be thrown this lifeline.....

Its all a load of green flannel UNLESS you can find two identical houses in identical locations (+- 200 yards?). Even then, the difference in prices due to external pressure on the vendors, will outweigh any possible gains (or losses) due to the lack of insulation. When you buy a house 70% of what you are paying for is the site and planning permission and services.
I think the fitting of low consumption bulbs, gaining brownie points on the EPC is plainly daft, as lots of people take their bulbs with them - they are not a "fitting".
Frank

Dantenz

Sadly people don't understand much about it at all, and lets face it many people are easily taken in with a patter from the estate agent.

I had an EPC done on this place and it was way out, the lady that did it even admitted to me that the software they use was very basic and did not even take into account solar gain. Was just on basic stuff like size, windows, guess at construction. Not that it makes any difference as no one has been around in over a year to look at it.

Seems to me that the EPC should be thrown away for the reasons stated by steamytea above , whereas the hips pack is a very good idea (if it includes a survey) I have never understood why each potential buy should have to fork out for the same house only to find out they dont want it because its defective.

The EPC as it stands is a waste of time. Train surveyors to do a PROPER energy survey that they can charge a decent amount for carrying out and is worth the paper it is written on. And let the seller pay for it, not the buyers. That way the client has an interest to do things properly.

Gutted on behalf of my son and daughter-in-law - they just had a HIPs thingy done at the end of last week! Cost them over 300 quid; EPC was on top of that. Personally I'll be pleased to see it go. Yet another official money making scam as it only had a 3 month "shelf-life" as I remember, almost guaranteeing that you would have to pay for a repeat sometime during the selling process.

I'm with BdeP. Even though this doesn't really affect me (I've always done my own surveys).

Datenz: Why does it make sense for each buyer to get their own survey done when the seller could do it once? Clearly the 3-month thing makes little sense (a seller is unlikely to be changing much). When a HIP/EPC is done it should be put online then we'd slowly build up a database of the state of the building stock. Buyers could easily look at the last survey done (bearing in mind age). EPCs are a good idea in principle too, but I do have a problem with the hopelessly perfunctory nature. Useful for renters primarily, I think.

A HIP is a Home Information Pack which had to contain:
+ an EPC showing the energy efficiency rating and likely running costs, and ways to improve the house.
+ land registry searches showing exactly what you are buying
+ a local search (showing up any plans to build a nuilear powerstation or dual carriageway next door, or maybe that next door is about to build a two storey extension blocking your sun patio).

Optionally you could include an Home Condition report (HCR) but no one bothered as it's basically a house MOT which wouldshow all the defects - meaning the seller is on the back foot.

Even so I thought HIPs were good, becuase:
a) it stopped people who had no intention to sell putting their house on the market just to see what it would fetch - driving down other prices due to over supply. I now expect a house price crash pretty imminently! I've known several people in the past who get their house valued by an estate agent, get the for sale sign up (all no sale no fee) and then get an offer and say "we decided not to move". I expect over the next few months hundreds of thousands of for sale signs will go up and drop property prices. Mmmmmn..
b) it meant buyers at least knew the seller owned the proerty and seller solicitors could find out they had a right of way problem which woucl be sorted out earlier in the process, and maybe stop you losing a sale.
c) The EPC meant you could show a 1920 house is actually D rated and will cost £600 a year to heat rather than G rated and costing £2,300 becuase it has gas central heating, double glazing, decent heating controls, 300mm loft insulation rather than a coal fire and portable electric heaters, single glazing and 50mm loft insulation. People know the first house it better - but not £1,400 a year better! That is a major purchasing decision, but unfortunately not something that has become part of house buying culture yet.

The HIP (exc EPC) worked great, provided buyers understood it. Unless they were solicitors, they didn't.

Most buyers still don't ask to see the HIP. Sellers paying means searches were done as cheap as possible ('don't worry, it's all insured...'), or were out of date by the time a buyer was found. Vast majority of solicitors would not proceed on a purchase without up-to-date within-a-month-old searches provided by someone they trust. Most recent slow-market sales have searches done twice. Duh.
Training to provide HIPs? - zilch.
EPCs - yes, and with regular auditing and CPD.
Again, just to ram the point home - compulsory training for assembling something involving the legal aspects of peoples most expensive purchase - zilch. Crazy.
Yes, there are occasions when something legal has been brought to light earlier in the process, but not many. The EPC is europe-wide, required by law, and tacking it onto something as daft as a HIP makes a mockery of what the EPC is designed to do.

The EPC should now form two parts
- firstly, seller commissions the EPC, as before, pre-sale, a basic one-size-fits-all quick survey that at least attempts to compare apples with oranges and put at least some idea of comparable running costs to different properties built to different standards. That'll eventually filter through to buyers as utilities costs rise, so that they might actually want to see the EPC instead of just two little charts at the bottom of the sales details.
Yes, I agree quite a few EPCs are miles out, partly because of the limitations of the software and modeling, and partly because paying someone £30 less travel less lodgement and insurance (£7.23 for NHER), isn't exactly going to fire up the enthusiasm of an energy assessor and lead to accurate assessments - it'll mean speed is the key for a successful assessor, not accuracy, to get decent turnover and a decent wage. I'd suggest £75 as a minimum, based on house size, to get something accurate and repeatable. Paying peanuts doesn't work - it undermines the validity of what the EPC is attempting to do albeit in a blunt gubbermint/europe type way - it's trying to save the planet and money. Explaining to someone who's hoping to dump the old leaky terrace that costs a fortune to heat that their knackered old roof is ideal for solar panels doesn't exactly result in anything productive.

- secondly, within, say, a month of the sale, a second cheaper compulsory 15 min visit should be made (and this is the important bit!) sitting down WITH THE NEW OWNERS OF THE HOUSE - advising them that that old boiler is costing them an arm and a leg and a polar bear, that loft insulation is £200 and has a payback in full by february, and that the roof is southfacing etc etc. Sit 'em down with the EPC and point out what could be done. There are still buyers out there who have no idea what their new house is costing, and what improvements could be made for very little expenditure.

Dave, my fee is in the post.