Tue, 19 Dec 2023 08:17:49 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17756&Focus=300443#Comment_300443 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17756&Focus=300443#Comment_300443 Sat, 25 Feb 2023 12:29:54 +0000 zak99
With an ancient Oil Boiler we were hoping for help with GSHP but we ended up with rad valves, and Solar Thermal.

We were supposed to get new LED bulbs too but that never happened despite asking.

My main issue is to get the Solar Thermal job finished either with or without them

My other observations are

I wish the surveyor had Specced the panel on the lower South facing garage roof seen in the picture.
In its current East position the panel should surely have been higher than where it is now
Should the display panel be downstairs in the airing cupboard

They have arrived late in the day for just about every visit and there have been many visits however all the contractors have been polite and pleasant and had far to travel though. There have been several no shows without any contact. Communication of arrival times, no shows, rebooking has been very poor by the office. I’m in limbo at the moment as they are just not getting back to me with an agreeable rebooking for the electrician who didn’t show. He needed a 20 core cable I believe.

I felt the panel looked high above the tiles compared to the thinner PV panels so asked for bird mesh to blend it in but was quoted £380 + vat for just one panel so declined.

The panel was installed without scaffolding from ladders on a frosty day which is perhaps why he never put the panel at the top.

One day when the plumbers were here a manager unexpectedly waltzed through my front door without saying hello or introducing himself as if I didn’t exist. After a chat with a plumber the manager dragged out the ancient copper cylinder and started putting in in his car. I asked the plumbers do you get the money for that, no not a penny. So I politely took it back from the guy who grumpily argued with me that it was not mine. I gave the plumbers the expected cash for the cylinder as that’s the way I am, the workers deserve the bonus. I guess I pissed them off !!

So where do I go now please? Whats your thoughts please?

I hope you can see the photos in this link, they are bigger if clicked on

https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0T532ODWJlHmS

(if theres a better way to add pics pls let me know)

Rgds]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17756&Focus=300444#Comment_300444 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17756&Focus=300444#Comment_300444 Sat, 25 Feb 2023 13:31:02 +0000 Nick Parsons
If you have the HW I guess you are part-way there, but this sounds very unsatisfactory. Would you get anywhere with the 'Umbrella Body' scheme administrator?

The heat-proof pipe-wrap wants taping as it's gaping open, and presumably they are coming back to replace the insulation on the (top coil) pipework to/from the boiler?

Good luck.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17756&Focus=300445#Comment_300445 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17756&Focus=300445#Comment_300445 Sat, 25 Feb 2023 13:54:09 +0000 zak99 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17756&Focus=300446#Comment_300446 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17756&Focus=300446#Comment_300446 Sat, 25 Feb 2023 15:01:24 +0000 marsaday
Sounds a more simple instal thanks you as pv only but the industry is so busy.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17756&Focus=300448#Comment_300448 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17756&Focus=300448#Comment_300448 Sat, 25 Feb 2023 16:41:54 +0000 djh
You should know what the GSX1 is. What kind of manuals have you got?]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17756&Focus=300457#Comment_300457 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17756&Focus=300457#Comment_300457 Sat, 25 Feb 2023 22:23:56 +0000 zak99 Posted By: djhThe insulation looks extremely poorly done. Gaps at bends, whole lengths uninsulated, mish-mash of different types etc. And the wiring doesn't look much better - not enough clips for starters. As Nick suggested I'd be looking at the complaints procedure.

You should know what the GSX1 is. What kind of manuals have you got?

No manuals, no schematic !!]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17756&Focus=300458#Comment_300458 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17756&Focus=300458#Comment_300458 Sun, 26 Feb 2023 16:42:40 +0000 kaicasswell the pipework from the blow off valve on the solar pump station should be same diameter as the fitting so DN16, 3/4 or 22mm and it should terminate in a proper container
By having the solar pump station and expansion vessel in the loft it may be subject to over temperature - the pump and ex vessel have a max short term rating of 120C and the panels can reach >180-200C. if that hot fluid or steam reaches the pump station it can cause problems.
the zone valve on the hot flow side is not normally needed and may also fail prematurely if not solar rated
if the system is filled with fluid but not switched then it will be boiling every sunny day and breaking down the fluid
a little each time.
I am willing to bet the solar expansion vessel pressure is set incorrectly and they have left it at 3bar - it should be 0.1-0.3bar lower than the set system pressure to allow proper expansion and system reset during stagnation.

I would always install the controller , pump station and ex vessel downstairs where it is accessible for service and monitoring, and to keep those components away from the heat.

hope that helps, ive been installing and repairing solar thermal for 16 years and was MCS accredited from 2007-2015]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17756&Focus=300459#Comment_300459 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17756&Focus=300459#Comment_300459 Sun, 26 Feb 2023 18:07:13 +0000 djh https://grantengineering.ie/media/1299/grant-gsx1-solar-controller-gs222765-manual-doc97-rev00-november-2013.pdf]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17756&Focus=300480#Comment_300480 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17756&Focus=300480#Comment_300480 Mon, 27 Feb 2023 18:54:01 +0000 revor The install in general does not fill me with confidence there is a complete lack of attention to detail of the pipe insulation. Normally the flexible SS pipe comes ready installed with the special EPDM insulation designed for high temps ordinary insulation melts so check that out.
Where the pipes comes through the roof felt should be closed off with suitable pleated tape e.g. tyvex have one that goes around pipes and sticks to the felt.
As mentioned previously the blow off from the safety valve should go in a properly designed receptacle e.g

https://www.bes.co.uk/safety-valve-solar-fluid-recovery-container-19918/

Not seen an expansion vessel like the one you have (not to say it is not correct) but they normally have an air valve on the opposite end of the pipe connection so balancing pressure can be applied.
Can't see any evidence of temperature (other than one coming from the roof but not happy it is next to the pipe which can get extremely hot) sensors that work with the controller to monitor temps in the collector, and different places in the solar cylinder. It may be they have not fitted them yet or that you have a different design to what I have and how I understand how solar thermal control works.
Ideally all the controls and safety devices should be readily accessible and not in the loft as kaicasswell already highlighted. Mine are next to the cylinder in the utility/plant room downstairs and we look at the display at least once a day as we can see at a glance how hot the water is at different positions in the tank at what the collector temperature is at. We will use this information to decide whether to put boiler on to top up the DHW for instance. Makes the management of the system that much easier. I note the display unit is not wired in so that may be a temp location in which case there would be no reason why that could not be located somewhere more convenient for you. You will find it very useful.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17756&Focus=301033#Comment_301033 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17756&Focus=301033#Comment_301033 Thu, 30 Mar 2023 13:59:58 +0100 revor http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17756&Focus=301280#Comment_301280 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17756&Focus=301280#Comment_301280 Fri, 21 Apr 2023 09:35:45 +0100 DavidND
The pump, control & overflow need to be where they can be seen and you can react when things are not right and not potentially costing you serious money. Personally I'd move the pressure vessel too.

The lack of attention to detail, to me, demonstrates they really don't have a clue about what they are doing or, most importantly, why.

Happy to try to help if you get this!]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17756&Focus=301299#Comment_301299 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17756&Focus=301299#Comment_301299 Sat, 22 Apr 2023 20:11:46 +0100 revor It is quite technical but it is loaded with information you will find useful. I guess your installers won't have heard of it. Good luck.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17756&Focus=301449#Comment_301449 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17756&Focus=301449#Comment_301449 Thu, 04 May 2023 22:37:32 +0100 zak99
This company have been incredibly frustrating to deal with. I have little confidence in them resolving all these things.

RE the pump and expansion cylinder in loft, the only space downstairs would be the airing cupboard where the insulated hot water cylinder is, I guess that space will accumulate heat too so are these better in the loft or the airing cupboard?. I think the plumbing was a little lazy with the insulated hot water cylinder and better use of the space could have been made.

In addition to all the above what are your thoughts with the panel roof location please? To my mind it should either have been on the adjacent south facing roof, or at least at the top of the east roof it is on now to maximise sunlight. Small matter or worth raising ?]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17756&Focus=301454#Comment_301454 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17756&Focus=301454#Comment_301454 Fri, 05 May 2023 18:38:43 +0100 zak99
It's still not working, despite doing some dodgy looking wonky cable clipping the chap that came today seems sensible and committed to get the job sorted. I made little progress on some of the things raised above but he did move the controller in a better spot, agreed to improve the insulation, wired everything in including low down solar tank thermostat but not a higher water tank thermostat to boiler, more on that later. Unfortunately the new controller display seems fried so needs to come back with a new one. The last guy appears to have lost his job over this installation (not at my request) which is a shame but at least some things are being sorted here.

My old hot water tank has never had an external thermostat. The boiler is an old Worcester Danesmoor 15/19 and the guy today said without an external hot water thermostat theres little point in the Solar Thermal install as the boiler will still be heating hot water unless we manage it manually daily etc. So he will talk to Worcester to see whats possible on this boiler re hot water control (via thermostat) independent of heating.

I raised the blow off tank, roof pipe entry and fluid not flowing and possibly its overheating but unfortunately got no where. As I say he otherwise seems sensible and committed to deliver a working system, after 6 months and countless visits that would feel like progress !!

I cant help wondering with all the manufacturing and endless hours and hours of contractors driving if this system will ever balance on emissions !!!]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17756&Focus=301455#Comment_301455 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17756&Focus=301455#Comment_301455 Fri, 05 May 2023 22:25:51 +0100 Peter_in_Hungary Looking at your problems and the fact that the installers have done a v. bad installation job and the system still does not work (will it ever be a satisfactory installation ??) it seems to me that what you have is not of merchantable quality and the installation is not fit for purpose.

Do you think the installation co. are capable of getting your system put to rights and working properly, including the siting of the solar panels - who's choice was the panel location? Was it totally the surveyors choice and was there a good reason to put them on an east facing roof. IMO there must be a good technical or planning reason not to use a south facing roof if there is one.

Do you have everything documented - if not write up a diary before you forget.

You are probably close to the point (if you are not already there) to take advice about your consumer rights.

You should not do anything to the system by way of remedial work nor tell the installers where to put anything as this will muddy the waters down the line.

Take advice on your options - Citizens Advice is a good place to start]]>