Green Building Forum - Best windows and installers South West Tue, 19 Dec 2023 08:35:45 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Best windows and installers South West http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300633#Comment_300633 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300633#Comment_300633 Tue, 07 Mar 2023 08:44:51 +0000 betamaxbandit I'm trying to decide on the best windows and best installer to use for my property.
I couldn't find an exhaustive list on this forum for window manufacturers and installers.
I live in Bristol, South West England.
I'm considering getting the highest performance windows I can, so maybe these will be triple glazed.
Considering aluminium frames with timber inside.
Buying decision is guided by the quality of the window, but also the reputation of the installer. My goal is to have a high airtightness level and so it seems a taped install would be best.

The property is a 1930' semi with bay window to replace tired ~25 year old upvc double glazed. The walls have ~90mm EPS external wall insulation installed.

To get the ball rolling, I've just been watching a video[1] about Schüco windows. Do they have a good reputation in the UK? One of their windows [2] has a Uf value = 0.71 W/(m2K); is this good?

Cheers Betamax

[1]: "Window Installation Pt. 1" Build Show Build: Boston Ep. 8
Matt Risinger, Build Show
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcoMihs6hHQ

[2] Schüco AWS 90.SI+
https://www.schueco.com/uk/homeowners/windows/aluminium-windows]]> Best windows and installers South West http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300634#Comment_300634 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300634#Comment_300634 Tue, 07 Mar 2023 09:26:52 +0000 fostertom
The idea is to move and fit the new windows outboard, so they sit as much as poss within the insulation zone, tho that's tricky when the EWI is a bit thin, like 90mm. Ideally, the window frames should be clear of any contact with the masonry, but you'll still need some setback (reveal depth showing) from the EWI's finished outer face. You'll also need to think about external cills (and of course deeper internal cillboards). With bay windows, the geometry of moving windows outboard needs careful design.

With 'only' 90mm of EPS it's poss not worth going the whole, more expensive Passive House-standard route with new windows. By far the best 'bang for buck' are the triple glazed, but not full-PH standard, 1.1U windows from Russell Timbertech - one third cheaper than anyone else, for comparable, in my repeated experience, and very adequate quality. They do also do a PH-grade version, but cost much more, for no obvious reason. These are all-timber, factory finished, but they do an aluminium-outer-faced version, which shouldn't be necessary except in exposed locations. This is a trade supplier, not a consumer-friendly co - the specificatioin stage is quite arduous, and they're a bit unreliable on delivery times. But worth it at the price.

As you should be integrating their installation with the EWI, this isn't just standard 'installer' work, more like competent builder's work.]]> Best windows and installers South West http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300635#Comment_300635 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300635#Comment_300635 Tue, 07 Mar 2023 11:17:39 +0000 djh Posted By: betamaxbanditConsidering aluminium frames with timber inside.
Buying decision is guided by the quality of the window, but also the reputation of the installer. My goal is to have a high airtightness level and so it seems a taped install would be best.What do you mean by aluminium frames with timber inside? The Schüco ones seem to be thermally-broken aluminium (i.e. aluminium both inside and outside). I have timber PH windows with aluminium cladding outside: 'PH' means there is insulation within the wooden frame. And as Tom says, what are you requirements?

If you're aiming for a high airtightness, what sort of ventilation do you have? If you don't have a mechanical system you'll most likely have to have trickle vents, which limits the airtightness.

Windows are a bit strange. It took us twelve versions of the suppliers specs to get the correct specification and a few months of waiting afterwards for them to be manufactured. You're right to focus on the installation; you need to find people you can trust, as well as educate yourself so you understand what is going on and what is good and what is bad.]]> Best windows and installers South West http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300643#Comment_300643 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300643#Comment_300643 Tue, 07 Mar 2023 18:25:32 +0000 revor Posted By: fostertomAs you should be integrating their installation with the EWI, this isn't just standard 'installer' work, more like competent builder's work.

For a v good book on external wall insulation take a look at a book by Christopher J Pearson on the subject. It has quite a bit of detail on how to trim windows and choose suitable cill profiles etc. Mine came with a CD rom of detailed drawings. This may help you consider how best to do your window install.]]> Best windows and installers South West http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300644#Comment_300644 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300644#Comment_300644 Tue, 07 Mar 2023 18:34:39 +0000 Nick Parsons Best windows and installers South West http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300699#Comment_300699 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300699#Comment_300699 Fri, 10 Mar 2023 14:12:49 +0000 Doubting_Thomas Posted By: betamaxbanditI live in Bristol, South West England.
I'm considering getting the highest performance windows I can, so maybe these will be triple glazed.
Considering aluminium frames with timber inside.

I'm near Bath and we got Internorm windows and doors installed. Triple glazed, timber frames with aluminium cover. The local re-seller/installer (Ecohaus) is based in Stroud so fairly local too.

They are pricy but were Passivhaus certified so made sense for our build. I seem to recall someone on here saying they are one of the few that test their seals in both pressurisation and depressurisation directions.

We've had ours about 6 years now and they are still performing well. My only gripe was the relatively poor choice in door designs from the same company.]]> Best windows and installers South West http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300705#Comment_300705 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300705#Comment_300705 Fri, 10 Mar 2023 20:34:03 +0000 djh Posted By: Doubting_ThomasThey are pricy but were Passivhaus certified so made sense for our build. I seem to recall someone on here saying they are one of the few that test their seals in both pressurisation and depressurisation directions.PH airtightness tests involve both pressurisation and depressurisation, so I imagine every PH window is tested both ways too. Otherwise it could get embarrassing very quickly.]]> Best windows and installers South West http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300827#Comment_300827 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300827#Comment_300827 Mon, 20 Mar 2023 12:03:51 +0000 betamaxbandit
I missed these as I don't seem to be receiving notifications when an answer to a topic is posted - is it possible to configure that?

Posted By: fostertomNice drawing - is that before or after the EWI installed? Is the EWI in fact already done?


Thanks. That is the survey drawing created by the architect before renovation was performed.

EWI is not fitted and the front door has been replaced with a new door.

Posted By: fostertom As you should be integrating their installation with the EWI, this isn't just standard 'installer' work, more like competent builder's work.


OK that is good to know. I did wonder how the EWI/Window interface would be dealt with. Sounds like it's going to be quite complicated.

I think I'm looking for a supplier/installer who can deal with the entire thing. I don't want to get into ordering windows myself.]]> Best windows and installers South West http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300828#Comment_300828 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300828#Comment_300828 Mon, 20 Mar 2023 12:11:20 +0000 betamaxbandit Posted By: djh
Posted By: betamaxbanditConsidering aluminium frames with timber inside.
Buying decision is guided by the quality of the window, but also the reputation of the installer. My goal is to have a high airtightness level and so it seems a taped install would be best.
What do you mean by aluminium frames with timber inside? The Schüco ones seem to be thermally-broken aluminium (i.e. aluminium both inside and outside). I have timber PH windows with aluminium cladding outside: 'PH' means there is insulation within the wooden frame. And as Tom says, what are you requirements?

If you're aiming for a high airtightness, what sort of ventilation do you have? If you don't have a mechanical system you'll most likely have to have trickle vents, which limits the airtightness.

Windows are a bit strange. It took us twelve versions of the suppliers specs to get the correct specification and a few months of waiting afterwards for them to be manufactured. You're right to focus on the installation; you need to find people you can trust, as well as educate yourself so you understand what is going on and what is good and what is bad.


Thanks djh. Good point about ventillation. I don't have mvhr so that is something to consider. However, I do have good old skool extraction is kitchen and bathrooms. I never seem to suffer from condensation inside for some reason. Relative humidity always seems to be at a steady 60%.

Yes keen to learn more about the right way to get windows installed. Every window installer I've spoke to in the UK has never mentioned using tape to seal the gap between window and masonry/frames. But it seems obvious and something I've come across in relation to passive house. Maybe I'm just not talking to the right people.]]> Best windows and installers South West http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300829#Comment_300829 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300829#Comment_300829 Mon, 20 Mar 2023 12:12:16 +0000 betamaxbandit Posted By: revor
Posted By: fostertomAs you should be integrating their installation with the EWI, this isn't just standard 'installer' work, more like competent builder's work.


For a v good book on external wall insulation take a look at a book by Christopher J Pearson on the subject. It has quite a bit of detail on how to trim windows and choose suitable cill profiles etc. Mine came with a CD rom of detailed drawings. This may help you consider how best to do your window install.

Excellent, thanks. I've ordered a copy of that book.]]> Best windows and installers South West http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300830#Comment_300830 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300830#Comment_300830 Mon, 20 Mar 2023 12:14:36 +0000 betamaxbandit Posted By: Doubting_Thomas
Posted By: betamaxbanditI live in Bristol, South West England.
I'm considering getting the highest performance windows I can, so maybe these will be triple glazed.
Considering aluminium frames with timber inside.


I'm near Bath and we got Internorm windows and doors installed. Triple glazed, timber frames with aluminium cover. The local re-seller/installer (Ecohaus) is based in Stroud so fairly local too.

They are pricy but were Passivhaus certified so made sense for our build. I seem to recall someone on here saying they are one of the few that test their seals in both pressurisation and depressurisation directions.

We've had ours about 6 years now and they are still performing well. My only gripe was the relatively poor choice in door designs from the same company.

That's very good to know. Internorm are on my list of suppliers to contact. And good to learn of an installer for them.
My front door is already been replaced, so that won't be a problem.]]> Best windows and installers South West http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300831#Comment_300831 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300831#Comment_300831 Mon, 20 Mar 2023 12:16:26 +0000 betamaxbandit I contacted Schüco windows and received 0 response.
Cheers betamax]]> Best windows and installers South West http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300835#Comment_300835 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300835#Comment_300835 Mon, 20 Mar 2023 20:30:45 +0000 djh Posted By: betamaxbanditI missed these as I don't seem to be receiving notifications when an answer to a topic is posted - is it possible to configure that?Sadly not. As long as you stay logged in then bookmarking the All discussions page is the easiest way to see what's happened.]]> Best windows and installers South West http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300836#Comment_300836 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300836#Comment_300836 Mon, 20 Mar 2023 20:32:59 +0000 djh Posted By: betamaxbanditI don't want to get into ordering windows myself.I'd suggest changing your mind. Only you know exactly what you want, and you will need to check every small detail very carefully to avoid mistakes and misunderstandings, so best to accept that early, IMHO.]]> Best windows and installers South West http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300837#Comment_300837 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300837#Comment_300837 Mon, 20 Mar 2023 20:41:45 +0000 djh Posted By: betamaxbanditI don't have mvhr so that is something to consider. However, I do have good old skool extraction is kitchen and bathrooms. I never seem to suffer from condensation inside for some reason. Relative humidity always seems to be at a steady 60%.You need a proper ventilation system or you must fit trickle vents which ruins your airtightness. Do you know what your current airtightness is, and what are you aiming for?
Posted By: betamaxbanditDoes anyone has any other manufacturer/installer recommendations please?
Greensteps and Livingwood are two I would consider. There's also GBS of course.]]> Best windows and installers South West http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300849#Comment_300849 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300849#Comment_300849 Tue, 21 Mar 2023 10:02:35 +0000 betamaxbandit Posted By: djh
Posted By: betamaxbanditI don't have mvhr so that is something to consider. However, I do have good old skool extraction is kitchen and bathrooms. I never seem to suffer from condensation inside for some reason. Relative humidity always seems to be at a steady 60%.
You need a proper ventilation system or you must fit trickle vents which ruins your airtightness. Do you know what your current airtightness is, and what are you aiming for?
Posted By: betamaxbanditDoes anyone has any other manufacturer/installer recommendations please?
Greensteps and Livingwood are two I would consider. There's also GBS of course.


No I don't know what my current airtightness is. I doubt it's good enough to measure it. I'm aim for a draft free installation.


Thanks, I'll look into them.]]> Best windows and installers South West http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300873#Comment_300873 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300873#Comment_300873 Tue, 21 Mar 2023 17:39:41 +0000 Doubting_Thomas
On the window install side, I found this an incredibly useful reference for understanding the basics. It's aimed at a US market but the principles are all applicable and the taping products are European and readily available here from GBS and other suppliers:
https://foursevenfive.com/blog/how-to-prepare-for-high-performance-windows/

In our case the external taping was done by the window installers but I went around and tape sealed internally myself.]]> Best windows and installers South West http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300875#Comment_300875 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17768&Focus=300875#Comment_300875 Tue, 21 Mar 2023 18:33:03 +0000 revor Posted By: betamaxbanditI think I'm looking for a supplier/installer who can deal with the entire thing. I don't want to get into ordering windows myself.

I chose some very big windows for an 7M high atrium which would need a crane and vacuum lifter to install. The window manufacturer recommended an installer which was near to me but he would not measure up and order for the openings, that was up to me. He would however for an extra charge check the delivery to make sure they were ok. I bought a 2nd hand vacuum lifter and as it was a steel frame I was fitting to I used gallows brackets, steel beams, chain blocks and some ingenuity to lift into place. Had I known the recommended installer would not do everything I would have gone elsewhere but I had ordered them and would not have been able to cancel. You would be wise to ensure that your installer will do everything you want and get it written as part of your contract. The said windows had several manufacturing issues, they were 1st off the production line after a shutdown. It took them a lot of time to sort and I reckon incurred as much cost fixing them as I paid for them. And to cap it all the powder coating is now fading and coming off in the rain so another stressful time coming up for us to get it sorted.]]>