Green Building Forum - Housing Estates Tue, 19 Dec 2023 08:27:21 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Housing Estates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303407#Comment_303407 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303407#Comment_303407 Tue, 19 Sep 2023 13:50:13 +0100 Rex
The area I live in leafy Surrey(!) is undergoing quite a substantial new housing building program.

One local 'field' listed on the government web site as flood plain with once in 100 year chance of flooding, will have around 100 new houses built.

The Trust Pilot highly rated builder, Taylor Wimpey is about to open the show home.
Reading the other thread regarding EPC rating, I would guess this house will be B+ or even A. But having watched it being built, i cannot understand how that could ba achieved?

But of more interest to me, is the 'design' waste.' The show house does not have a fire place or stove but for whatever 'design' reasons, it does have a fibreglass chimney. My house does not have a fireplace or stove, and I did not fit a chimney.

Obviously just a sales gimmick. Seems very strange and unnecessary cost, but what do I know?]]> Housing Estates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303408#Comment_303408 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303408#Comment_303408 Tue, 19 Sep 2023 14:30:32 +0100 owlman Housing Estates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303409#Comment_303409 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303409#Comment_303409 Tue, 19 Sep 2023 14:50:49 +0100 Peter_in_Hungary
In Poland I remember seeing houses built on a flood and they were all built on banked up earth about 1.2m above the land level. The soil was taken from the plot, most still had the hole in the back garden and some had converted the hole to a swimming pool. Of course the plots were about 2,000m2 so the pit didn't notice too much. I doubt that the above houses are on a plot anything like that size.]]> Housing Estates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303410#Comment_303410 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303410#Comment_303410 Tue, 19 Sep 2023 14:57:38 +0100 WillInAberdeen
If you build houses on embankments on a flood plain, they won't flood. But the water that would/should have been standing on that plot, will have to go somewhere else, ie downstream to flood someone else's home.

That's why riverside towns which historically didn't flood, now do.

Doubt whether the residents/builders of the new houses care, they're ok on their embankments.]]> Housing Estates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303412#Comment_303412 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303412#Comment_303412 Tue, 19 Sep 2023 16:36:47 +0100 djh "The average developer will place a 4 bedroomed home on 1/8th to 1/16th of an acre!" :devil: :devil:

I think I commented a couple of years ago that there were 'spare' fake chimneys sitting on one of the new developments near us. They're still there, but the houses are moving slowly towards them. The King (nee Prince of Wales) likes chimneys, don't you know. :cry:]]> Housing Estates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303416#Comment_303416 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303416#Comment_303416 Tue, 19 Sep 2023 20:17:55 +0100 Rex
But it is all OK as Taylor Wimpey have designed a 'sustainable urban drainage' solution, assuming that in 10, 20, 30 or more years time, the ditches have been kept clear for when that heavy rain thunders off the North Downs.

There is another smaller site near by, and following a heavy downpour, I can only imagine that surface water kinda approached the front doors of a number of houses. The solution, a line of sandbags on the nicely landscaped grass verge and gardens.]]> Housing Estates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303417#Comment_303417 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303417#Comment_303417 Tue, 19 Sep 2023 20:50:43 +0100 owlman
https://www.massivecert.com/blog/fema-100-year-flood-zone-explained#:]]> Housing Estates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303418#Comment_303418 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303418#Comment_303418 Tue, 19 Sep 2023 21:13:59 +0100 Jonti Housing Estates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303420#Comment_303420 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303420#Comment_303420 Tue, 19 Sep 2023 22:24:38 +0100 WillInAberdeen
You can have 100-year floods in two successive years, or even twice in the first year.

If a new build house in the 100-year zone stands for 100 years, then it is much more likely to be flooded sometime during its lifetime than it is to escape (actually 1-0.99¹⁰⁰ = 63% chance of flooding, 37% chance of escaping) and that flooding is every bit as likely to happen in the first year as in any other.

For comparison the rate of house fires in the UK is about 0.1%pa, or 'a thousand year event', or 9% likely to happen during the lifetime of the house.

When we think about all the building regs there are about fire protection, makes me wonder why we put up with so much higher rates of flooding.]]> Housing Estates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303421#Comment_303421 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303421#Comment_303421 Wed, 20 Sep 2023 08:50:23 +0100 Peter_in_Hungary Posted By: WillInAberdeenWhen we think about all the building regs there are about fire protection, makes me wonder why we put up with so much higher rates of flooding.
Perhaps because the sort of flooding that happens on the flood plains in the UK doesn't cost lives whereas fires do. And maybe that big business wants to ignore the risk ahead of profit.]]> Housing Estates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303422#Comment_303422 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303422#Comment_303422 Wed, 20 Sep 2023 09:25:57 +0100 WillInAberdeen
There are usually 10-100 flood deaths a year in UK but there are not separate figures for deaths escaping from houses vs people getting caught up in rivers or flooded roads (as in the last incident) so difficult to tell.

Also, for both fires and floods, there are very many incidents each year where everyone escapes, and just a few incidents each century where hundreds are killed, which tends to skew the stats. A single fire incident tends to affect one house, but a single flood incident usually floods many houses, also distorting stats.

In most cases, the effects of fire and flood are the same, people have to move out and have their lives upended until the place is rebuilt.]]> Housing Estates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303423#Comment_303423 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303423#Comment_303423 Wed, 20 Sep 2023 09:41:16 +0100 djh Posted By: Peter_in_Hungary
Posted By: WillInAberdeenWhen we think about all the building regs there are about fire protection, makes me wonder why we put up with so much higher rates of flooding.

Perhaps because the sort of flooding that happens on the flood plains in the UK doesn't cost lives whereas fires do.More to do with land prices and ownership methinks. Plus fire protection doesn't generally affect the appearance of a building too much whereas flood protection can and frequently does. If we were serious about fire protection, we'd mandate sprinklers or misters. It's too easy to take pot shots about flood protection.

The headlines last night suggest we aren't even serious about keeping the planet habitable. :cry:]]> Housing Estates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303428#Comment_303428 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303428#Comment_303428 Wed, 20 Sep 2023 12:18:30 +0100 Rex
At that time, X years ago, the UK gov flood maps did show this field as being in a low risk flood plain and all the locals know it gets very, very boggy. Nevertheless, the borough and county councils were happy to take the cash to give the go ahead.

Subsequent meetings with all kinda of smoke and mirror drawings of SUD solutions (drainage ditches, holding ponds, etc), and a developer request to HMG to reassess the flood zones based upon the fact that there has not been any flooding in X decades, and the maps now reflect that. The field is no longer listed; the railway embankment provides a dam and the stream flows under it to the SUDs scheme. But the land will be tarmaced with driveways and roads, and most likely, gardens will become very very boggy, which will not be a surprise.

But I guess the big developers with a serious bankroll know best!

Now I am looking forward to viewing the show house and hear the answer to, if there is a chimney, where is the fireplace?]]> Housing Estates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303430#Comment_303430 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303430#Comment_303430 Wed, 20 Sep 2023 12:43:35 +0100 WillInAberdeen
Flood zones in England are 'low risk' (less than 0.1%pa or 1000y); 'medium risk' (0.1-1%, 1000 to 100y) or 'high risk' ( >1%). Were the parish council clearly understanding which zone this is in?

Most of central London alongside the Thames is 'high risk', but they still build tower blocks down there!]]> Housing Estates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303445#Comment_303445 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303445#Comment_303445 Wed, 20 Sep 2023 18:30:37 +0100 lineweight Posted By: RexNow I am looking forward to viewing the show house and hear the answer to, if there is a chimney, where is the fireplace?

Fake chimneys are a bit of a silliness to me and I'd not want to buy a house with one - however, the answer is that lots of architectural design elements are essentially "symbolic" and are there because they convey to many people the idea of "house" in a reassuring way. See for example PVC front doors with fake raised panels and all sorts of other things. Even in classical architecture, all sorts of elements that have nothing to do with masonry construction and are remnants of timber detailing, retained for appearance only.

Because much of our housing stock was built in the era when chimneys were functional things, and because much of our new housing stock is built in a "traditional" style, to many people that "traditional" style doesn't look right without the chimney they are accustomed to.

Despite what lots of people will claim, the popularity of pitched roofs on domestic buildings isn't really due to functional superiority, it's because it matches what people expect a "house" to look like.]]> Housing Estates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303452#Comment_303452 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303452#Comment_303452 Wed, 20 Sep 2023 21:06:30 +0100 djh Posted By: WillInAberdeenMost of central London alongside the Thames is 'high risk', but they still build tower blocks down there!That's probably the most sensible thing to build! More flats will be above the floods than low-rise construction, and the size of the building means they can do something appropriate with the ground floor (if they wished!). Traditionally all the public housing blocks in Singapore were built with a void ground floor, which got used for all kinds of things, but they seem to have stopped that now :(]]> Housing Estates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303479#Comment_303479 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303479#Comment_303479 Fri, 22 Sep 2023 10:27:01 +0100 Dominic Cooney Housing Estates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303488#Comment_303488 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303488#Comment_303488 Fri, 22 Sep 2023 20:51:16 +0100 djh https://www.hopkinshomes.co.uk/developments/suffolk/stowmarket/mill-grove/

https://www.taylorwimpey.co.uk/new-homes/stowmarket/northfield-view

The second link is the site where the fake chimneys are lying about]]> Housing Estates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303491#Comment_303491 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303491#Comment_303491 Fri, 22 Sep 2023 23:21:28 +0100 lineweight Housing Estates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303492#Comment_303492 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303492#Comment_303492 Sat, 23 Sep 2023 00:05:09 +0100 WillInAberdeen
And the fake 'clay' roof tiles.

It's no longer necessary for houses to look like they are made out of dried mud and heated with burning logs, there have been plenty of rendered-cubes-with-flat-roofs available for many decades now. But people like houses that look like.. houses! I do. Stone and slate are even better.]]> Housing Estates http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303494#Comment_303494 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17961&Focus=303494#Comment_303494 Sat, 23 Sep 2023 08:04:09 +0100 Peter_in_Hungary