Green Building Forum - Wifi controlled switch/socket Tue, 19 Dec 2023 04:19:35 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303622#Comment_303622 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303622#Comment_303622 Sat, 30 Sep 2023 19:47:30 +0100 borpin Posted By: WillInAberdeenHi again Borpin, you are the guru on all things home automation!

What is the present view on controlling switches over the home wi-fi rather than using 433mhz radio remote control switches?

I have some WiFi controlled devices (kid's multicolour lighting) which are a pain whenever I change ISP and get a new router (despite doing my best to make the new WiFi network look and feel identical) and I think some will stop being supported long before they physically wear out. Whereas the 433mhz stuff just seems to keep working.

Probably best in another thread, but it is a little horses for courses although Zigbee is the preferred alternative to Wi-Fi. I hate Zigbee. I have a few legacy devices but they always seem to lose connection to the hub. They will go over time. :bigsmile:

Best sockets are the Tasmota or ESPHome flashed Athom ones from AliExpress as they are totally local and no Cloud service required.

Personally, I have my own main Router/firewall (currently a GL.iNet GL-AX1800(Flint)) which I connect to with a cable to the ISP router. I then turn off everything on the supplied router and just use mine. Change of ISP is simply unplug their router from mine and plug it into the new one. Job done.

In addition I have a specific router for all my IOT stuff.

You might find old devices need a lesser authentication standard. You might find you can set up another Wi-Fi network with specific settings to connect old devices too. The other thing is those devices may not cope well with the same SSID serving both 5G and 2.4G networks.]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303623#Comment_303623 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303623#Comment_303623 Sat, 30 Sep 2023 21:18:46 +0100 djh Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303627#Comment_303627 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303627#Comment_303627 Sun, 01 Oct 2023 10:50:04 +0100 revor Posted By: djhRe the IPC connectors. Why would anybody want to connect an EVSE to the meter tails? Why not connect it, as ours is, through a CU. It does have a separate RCD and MCB.

My thoughts would be convenience costs materials but good reasons give here plus explaining DNO take. Does not mention IPC 's though but does mention piggy backing meter tails.

https://www.efixx.co.uk/ev-charger-installation]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303628#Comment_303628 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303628#Comment_303628 Sun, 01 Oct 2023 11:55:02 +0100 djh Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303631#Comment_303631 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303631#Comment_303631 Sun, 01 Oct 2023 16:29:02 +0100 revor Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303636#Comment_303636 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303636#Comment_303636 Mon, 02 Oct 2023 10:54:20 +0100 djh Posted By: revorPiggy back onto tails is 1min 29 secs into the video.Sorry I simply don't see it. Another reason I hate videos instead of text!

Yes, they show the tails whilst discussing the fuse size but nothing about piggybacking that I can see?]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303638#Comment_303638 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303638#Comment_303638 Mon, 02 Oct 2023 10:59:10 +0100 WillInAberdeen
One of them is titled "Insulation Piercing Connectors on Meter Tails", here is the direct link
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qFDoZCvSzlU

Edit - interesting website.
New EV chargers now require PEN fault detection so that they don't need a dedicated earth spike, and a DC-detecting RCD, and being expensive electronics they would benefit from a surge protector, and they are located outdoors. All good reasons to tap into the meter tails in the meter box, before they run off indoors to the consumer unit, which doesn't usually have all those gubbins fitted in it. The EV installer ideally doesn't want to replace the existing consumer unit, as theyd have to bring all the house wiring up to present regs. We don't want them drilling the cable back outdoors through the airtight envelope!

So the principle of tapping into the meter tails sounds good, the debate is about whether those particular connectors are certified for that purpose, and whether the live ends of the conductors are insulated enough against touch, as Revor said. The traditional Henley block connectors require the DNO fuse pulled.]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303640#Comment_303640 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303640#Comment_303640 Mon, 02 Oct 2023 11:49:13 +0100 borpin Posted By: WillInAberdeenThe traditional Henley block connectors require the DNO fuse pulled.Mine has an isolator immediately after the meter and I think this is now the standard.]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303642#Comment_303642 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303642#Comment_303642 Mon, 02 Oct 2023 12:00:47 +0100 WillInAberdeen
(Edit - it's technically not the DNO's problem as their responsibility ends at the cutout fuse, nor is it the responsibility of the retailer, or their metering supplier who own as far as the meter but would take ownership of the isolator. The tails are my electrician's turf. But all those parties seem to have to participate!).

The solution might be to allow qualified/registered EV fitting electricians to pull the DNO fuse themselves, the same kind of guys were allowed to do this when they fitted the smart meter.]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303643#Comment_303643 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303643#Comment_303643 Mon, 02 Oct 2023 12:04:07 +0100 RobL There's a 2pole switch after the meter - so there was no need to pull the cutout to do all the above.]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303646#Comment_303646 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303646#Comment_303646 Mon, 02 Oct 2023 13:59:58 +0100 borpin Posted By: WillInAberdeen(Edit - it's technically not the DNO's problem as their responsibility ends at the cutout fuse, nor is it the responsibility of the retailer, or their metering supplier who own as far as the meter but would take ownership of the isolator. The tails are my electrician's turf. But all those parties seem to have to participate!).I'm pretty sure that, in my new build (11 years ago now) When they fitted the original meter, they fitted the isolator. I also have a thought in the back of my head that says when fitting smart meters, they were at some point fitting isolators.]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303647#Comment_303647 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303647#Comment_303647 Mon, 02 Oct 2023 16:20:11 +0100 WillInAberdeen The guy who fitted our smart meter had a list of other meters to fit that day, he didn't have time to fit 2-pole isolators as well, or even to drink tea. It wouldn't have taken him very much longer once the fuse was out and the old tails cut, but... sadly not.]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303648#Comment_303648 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303648#Comment_303648 Mon, 02 Oct 2023 16:47:34 +0100 Artiglio
I’ve an isolater between meter and consumer unit , as do my flats which were wired around 2003.]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303649#Comment_303649 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303649#Comment_303649 Mon, 02 Oct 2023 18:29:36 +0100 djh
Will's right about the grey colour of the turf. My electrician was very picky about doing earth checking around the meter box. There's some test he's supposed to do which requires either the DNO or the meter man to take some action, IIRC. We have two consumer units in the house (and another in the garage) and they are fed via Henley blocks, which are encapsulated under a built in place wooden box because the electrician said that a Henley box doesn't provide a double-insulated enclosure! :)]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303650#Comment_303650 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303650#Comment_303650 Mon, 02 Oct 2023 18:51:34 +0100 jamesingram Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303659#Comment_303659 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303659#Comment_303659 Tue, 03 Oct 2023 08:32:30 +0100 revor Posted By: djhSorry I simply don't see it. Another reason I hate videos instead of text!
Listen to the chap on the left. It is just a brief verbal mention not a demo.

Posted By: WillInAberdeenOne of them is titled "Insulation Piercing Connectors on Meter Tails", here is the direct link
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qFDoZCvSzlU" rel="nofollow" >https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qFDoZCvSzlU



Thanks for that thought they would have made a video on the topic.]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303858#Comment_303858 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303858#Comment_303858 Fri, 13 Oct 2023 19:15:57 +0100 revor Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303859#Comment_303859 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303859#Comment_303859 Fri, 13 Oct 2023 20:33:01 +0100 djh All DC and inverters are outside on the roof, and the DC cable lengths are measured in inches.]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303860#Comment_303860 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303860#Comment_303860 Sat, 14 Oct 2023 09:28:00 +0100 revor Posted By: djhSeems like a couple more advantages of microinverters to mehttp:///newforum/extensions/Vanillacons/smilies/standard/bigsmile.gif" alt=":bigsmile:" title=":bigsmile:" >All DC and inverters are outside on the roof, and the DC cable lengths are measured in inches.

Don't understand the significance of the inches bit

Regardless of having microinverters with a battery there will be an inverter standalone or integrated into the battery which needs housing somewhere. Everything was in the loft in this example

The full video is here. For those interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUehMdNfGrY&t=623s

Have watched a couple of this guys videos he is an excellent communicator and presenter.]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303861#Comment_303861 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303861#Comment_303861 Sat, 14 Oct 2023 09:42:51 +0100 djh
And yes, batteries are a different ball game. Though if the inverter/charger is integrated in the battery then again there's no DC cables, and if the battery is mounted outside then there's no need for a smoke alarm. But that's a different issue.]]> Wifi controlled switch/socket http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303878#Comment_303878 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17971&Focus=303878#Comment_303878 Mon, 16 Oct 2023 11:34:22 +0100 Simon Still
If you look at Appendix 1 there is a 'control mode 2' which uses volt free connections to control low/normal/boost and a 'fire' mode which turns off the fans. I use those to control my Sentinal via my home automation system.
https://www.vent-axia.com/sites/default/files/439817_ad.pdf

For Home Automation stuff my recommendation would be Shelly - they're European and thus should meet proper safety standards. Their app is good but it's also all pretty open and will work just fine with simple HTTP control - it's easy to integrate with other stuff WITHOUT needing to refresh with different software. I successfully refreshed some cheap wifi plugs but later supply of the same model never worked.

Shelly is also very cost competitive.
something like this could control the 'off mode' of the Sentinel without just powering it down completely.
https://www.shelly.com/en-gb/products/product-overview/shelly-plus-1-mini]]>