Home  5  Books  5  GBEzine  5  News  5  HelpDesk  5  Register  5  GreenBuilding.co.uk
Not signed in (Sign In)

Categories



Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.
Buy individually or both books together. Delivery is free!


powered by Surfing Waves




Vanilla 1.0.3 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

Welcome to new Forum Visitors
 Join the forum now and benefit from discussions with thousands of other green building fans and discounts on Green Building Press publications: Apply now.




General: Homes with smart meters to be paid £3 per kWh to take strain off power grid

Bottom of Page

1 to 24 of 24

  1.  
  1.  
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/oct/20/national-grid-to-pay-households-more-to-use-off-peak-power

    This will be interesting! Good for battery owners.

    "National Grid has significantly increased its financial incentive for households that shift their power usage away from peak times as part of a renewed effort to prevent rolling power cuts."

    "Its electricity system operator (ESO) has increased the incentive sixfold to £3 per kilowatt hour to encourage households to use their washing machines and appliances late at night, which could mean typical savings of £100 this winter."
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2022
     
    I have mixed feelings about this. We already run our washing machine overnight and we don't use heating (space or DHW) during the peak hours, we heat mostly overnight. So it seems a bit unfair to bribe people who weren't already doing that to start now. OTOH I suppose it will reduce the evening peak somewhat, so it's a good thing from that point of view.
    • CommentAuthorphiledge
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2022
     
    Fish and chips for 2 is around £15 ish so theyd need to pay way more than a few £ for us to have salads for tea til next spring. Not that we'd qualify without a smart meter!
  4.  
    Posted By: djhI have mixed feelings about this. We already run our washing machine overnight and we don't use heating (space or DHW) during the peak hours, we heat mostly overnight. So it seems a bit unfair to bribe people who weren't already doing that to start now. OTOH I suppose it will reduce the evening peak somewhat, so it's a good thing from that point of view.

    Are the payments only for those who change their power usage habit or is it available to anyone who doesn't use peak time power - even if they never did ?
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2022
     
    Posted By: philedgeFish and chips for 2 is around £15 ish so theyd need to pay way more than a few £ for us to have salads for tea til next spring. Not that we'd qualify without a smart meter!
    I think the idea is to nominate particular days when there is a forecast of insufficient power, and that the number of days might be around four. But I'm not sure. But yes, we have the same difficulty - we've moved to microwaving more things already, and we don't have a smart meter.

    Posted By: Peter_in_HungaryAre the payments only for those who change their power usage habit or is it available to anyone who doesn't use peak time power - even if they never did ?
    AIUI the payments are for a reduction over preceding usage, but I haven't checked recently.
  6.  
    Octopus ran a pilot trial version of this for NG, earlier this year. They emailed customers the day before to request them to reduce peak time consumption by X% compared to their normal peak time usage. Those who complied were given free units. They concluded that a much stronger incentive would be needed, to get enough people to comply, hence the £3 offer.

    We've all had the option of E7/E10 to save 10s of pence per unit, but only a minority have done so, so they'll need to offer more incentive.

    Probably the majority of people who are already low-peaktime-users are those with fossil heating, which is always cheaper per unit already. Don't see any need to reward those.

    Don't think many people will shift their cooking or TV away from early evening, as that's a hassle for not very much saving. Probably this is aimed more at those with EV chargers and immersion heaters, where the savings could add up to enough to overcome inertia.

    A couple of years ago it looked like time-of-use tariffs were about to become mainstream, but the price cap scheme and the failure of the smaller suppliers, seems to have killed off a lot of choice in the market.

    £15 for a fish supper for two sounds pretty good! Is £20 these days around here.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2022
     
    Posted By: WillInAberdeenWe've all had the option of E7/E10 to save 10s of pence per unit
    As a rule of thumb, I think you need to have over half your consumption at night to recover the extra cost of the expensive daytime units. We were using 55% overnight, because that's when the space heating and DHW heating operates from the mains in winter. I expect the percentage to increase a bit now we've got an EV. But generally I'd think people in conventional houses would need to be using storage heaters to benefit from E7.

    Don't think many people will shift their cooking or TV away from early evening, as that's a hassle for not very much saving. Probably this is aimed more at those with EV chargers and immersion heaters, where the savings could add up to enough to overcome inertia.
    You may well be right but I don't understand why anybody wouldn't already charge their EV and run their immersion at night, for climate reasons. So this feels like a quick fix that will reward climate deniers and selfish people for stepping into line, and hopefully get replaced with a more sensible scheme in time.
  8.  
    Posted By: WillInAberdeen£15 for a fish supper for two sounds pretty good! Is £20 these days around here.


    crikey, where do you lot live?!
    We pay £8.30 for 2 x spring rolls (one each at £2.20 - we don't eat fish) and a large portion of chips between us.
    There are still enough chips left over for a chip butty each the next day.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeOct 25th 2022
     
    If you like in Aberdeen, you have to factor in the cost of hijacking a truck, as all the fish is being sent south.
  10.  
    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2022/10/octopus-ovo-energy-pay-to-cut-electricity-use/

    Some info on which suppliers are going to participate (most of them).
    • CommentAuthorrevor
    • CommentTimeOct 27th 2022
     
    I wonder how it will work if at if you have a battery. During that period as long as I have had a reasonable amount of sun I would not be taking from the grid anyway and those I guess who charge up a battery from the grid would not be eligible.

    Posted By: WillInAberdeen£15 for a fish supper for two sounds pretty good! Is £20 these days around here.


    Its down to the high wages following the oil boom.

    Here it is £16 for 2 including mushy peas
  12.  
    Is anyone taking part in this today or tomorrow? What did you turn off?

    Our supplier is sadly one of the few to not participate. (Edit: we did defer cooking until after 6 anyway).
    • CommentAuthorRobL
    • CommentTimeJan 23rd 2023
     
    We’re with Octopus, and took part. Only 2 of us were home at the time. I turned off the heatpump and the fridge, lights off, carried on working (laptop & screen). Dinner was leftovers, just needed microwaving… after 6! Dunno if we’ll get anything for it, prob find out in a few days!
    • CommentAuthorcjard
    • CommentTimeJan 24th 2023
     
    "We pay £8.30 for 2 x spring rolls (one each at £2.20 - we don't eat fish) and a large portion of chips between us."

    Spring roll not really comparable to the price of a fish these days.. 6 quid+ around me, per fish. I'm mostly plant based now, not primarily for financial reasons though
  15.  
    Posted By: cjardI'm mostly plant based now


    Same here. Almost zero meat or dairy now for environmental reasons (not because of fluffy bunnykins) and haven't eaten fish for many years, it having been quote obvious to me the overfishing, by-catch, grinding up seafood to feed to livestock or to turn into fertiliser, devastation of the seabed by trawlers, all complete madness and unsustainable.
    I take an Omega-3 capsule made from algae to cut out the fish part of the cycle.
    Precision fermentation is the way forward for sustainable proteins - including milk proteins, resulting in cow-free cheese and ice cream etc.
  16.  
    Not as good as getting paid, but British Gas are offering half price electricity during the daytime on Sunday. To encourage people to run their WM and roast their dinner then, rather than on weekday evenings.

    https://www.britishgas.co.uk/energy/peak-save/sunday.html

    Does look like wholesale electricity is as cheap in the afternoon as it is overnight now, must be all the PV kicking in for the summer.
    • CommentAuthorrevor
    • CommentTimeApr 29th 2023
     
    Posted By: WillInAberdeenDoes look like wholesale electricity is as cheap in the afternoon as it is overnight now, must be all the PV kicking in for the summer.


    This last month my export payment daily average ranged from 9p to18p per unit with ave of 12p. Against paying 35p per unit and 57p daily charge after energy price guarantee. The "list" price 49.7p kWh.
  18.  
    Most people are still paying 35p for electricity because their tariff pre-purchased electricity last year (hedged) while the price was very high, consumers are paying the high price for that pre-purchasing now.

    But your export tariff didn't pre purchase your PV from you last year when the price was high, they're just paying you based on the present market price, which has now fallen lower.


    If your import tariff didn't pre purchase electricity last year then the price has fallen a lot. Eg octopus agile are supplying for 24p today average, but with a low of 18p this afternoon when they expect there will be lots of PV on the grid and available for import from Europe. Afternoon electricity is a little cheaper than overnight electricity (20-22p) and much cheaper than evening (34p)

    UK peak PV generation last week was 7 GW, not bad for April! Mostly increasing with solar farms now, rather than rooftops, which is driving the prices lower.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 29th 2023
     
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeApr 29th 2023
     
    Posted By: WillInAberdeenMost people are still paying 35p for electricity because their tariff pre-purchased electricity last year (hedged) while the price was very high, consumers are paying the high price for that pre-purchasing now.
    And for the avoidance of doubt, that is a good thing. Those companies that didn't pre-purchase were the ones that went bankrupt and that we all are paying for now :(
  21.  
    Er.... different tariffs from the same company may be pre-purchased, or not.

    Octopus offer a range of tariffs including Agile (not pre-purchased, so the risk is on the consumer) and more standard tariffs which are pre-purchased (so the consumer has certainty and pays a higher price). They didn't go bankrupt.

    You are thinking of companies like Bulb which didn't pre-purchase, but also didn't pass the risk to their consumers.

    They went bankrupt, were bought by the government who also didn't pre-purchase (despite criticism from the opposition) and hence saved a lot of money when they sold Bulb on to Octopus.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/mar/29/bulb-bailout-may-cost-uk-government-billions-less-than-feared-says-watchdog

    Edit to add: pre-purchasing at last year's prices has added many 10s of £bns to energy bills, £40bn of which has been paid by the taxpayer through the energy price guarantee scheme. Most of those £bns ended up as excess profits for international energy companies, some of which were windfall taxed. In hindsight this has cost taxpayers and billpayers a lot more £bns than we spent on bailing out failed companies (Bulb ended up 'fiscally neutral'), so hedging was an expensive mistake. But hindsight is always a wonderful thing!
  22.  
    Posted By: fostertom https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/apr/26/number-of-uk-homes-installing-rooftop-solar-panels-highest-in-over-seven-years

    That's a good amount of rooftop PV installed, 0.25 GW.

    But for context, last year 2.2 GW of newbuild solar farms pre-sold their output to the government through the CfD scheme, at 4.599p per kWh, and a similar number are going ahead without pre sales. There are something like 80GW of solar farms at various stages of planning, obvs they can not all get built.

    So we can expect the trend to continue towards lower prices during spring/summer afternoons, both for homeowners trying to export their PV, and for people buying electricity once the present imbalance in the pre purchased supplies is unwound.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1103022/contracts-for-difference-allocation-round-4-results.pdf
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 29th 2023 edited
     
    I thought elect retail price is divorced from ever-falling (or fluctuating) electricity generation price because, some way I don't understand, electricity price is based on gas price? until some renegotiation takes place?
  24.  
    Indeed, wholesale market prices for electricity and gas are much lower than last year. Retail prices are still high for most tariffs which pre purchased at last year's prices.
    Gas is still the marginal fuel price which sets the spot electricity price, but is being displaced by PV and (mostly) offshore wind.


    The Review of Electricity Market Arrangements will decouple electricity prices from gas, but is happening very slowly, one consultation finished and another is promised.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/review-of-electricity-market-arrangements#full-publication-update-history

1 to 24 of 24

  1.  
Add your comments

    Username Password
  • Format comments as
 
Back to Discussions Top of Page
   
The Ecobuilding Buzz
Site Map    |   Home    |   View Cart    |   Pressroom   |   Business   |   Links   
Logout    

© Green Building Press