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Housing - New Build: Shadow gaps

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    • CommentAuthorwoodgnome
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2013
     
    Is there a way of forming a shadow gap between wall/floor when plastering straight on to block-work, as opposed to dabbing plasterboard on the walls?
    I see there are plenty of beads etc, but cant find anything for using wet plaster straight on block-work.
    That's what happens when your other half watches Grand Designs !
    She wants them on the cieling/wall junction too...
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2013
     
    Did'nt they cost an additional £5k or something? Or was it £10k ???!!

    You need to do that cost/benefit thing with her, or train her to plaster!
    • CommentAuthorskyewright
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2013 edited
     
    I'm no expert - I had to google shadow gap.

    The first thing I thought when I saw what they were was "dust trap", however each to their own...

    Someone on this link mentions using a U channel of some sort (presumably helps hide the unplastered blockwork?).

    http://community.screwfix.com/thread/10945?start=0&tstart=0
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2013
     
    I have done a job for a client where skirtings were omitted and a recess about 5" high created instead into which I inserted down facing LED striplighting. The wall face featured a slight downstand and the lighting tucked up behind , so not seen. The wall was Fermacell fixed onto battens. The battens needn't be big, e.g. 2" x 2", and then plasterboard fixed to them.
  5.  
    Use wooden beading to form the gap wanted while the undercoat plaster goes on.

    Then use plasterboard metal edge beading to form the finish edge for the finish plaster.

    What flooring is going down?
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      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeApr 24th 2013
     
    Posted By: skyewrightThe first thing I thought when I saw what they were was "dust trap"

    Don't forget the spiders ...
  7.  
    Owlman

    did you take any photos - sounds intertesting and I'll like to see what it looks like
    • CommentAuthorRobinB
    • CommentTimeApr 24th 2013
     
    The Hepworth Gallery in Wakefield has them and personally I like them. IMHO they particularly suited this building.

    http://www.hepworthwakefield.org/whatson/ The pictures keep changing but I think this links to a pic showing them.....
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      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeApr 24th 2013
     
    Posted By: RobinBpersonally I like them

    I have no problem with their aesthetics. I just think they're a beautiful impractical waste of money.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeApr 24th 2013 edited
     
    Posted By: calvinmiddle
    did you take any photos - sounds intertesting and I'll like to see what it looks like

    Yes, but as prints from film, I'll try and get them scanned somehow, to give you an idea.

    djh. I just think they're a beautiful impractical waste of money.

    Not necessarily, you don't have to buy and fix skirtings. Quite a saving if they are hardwood.
    • CommentAuthorwoodgnome
    • CommentTimeApr 24th 2013 edited
     
    Owlman, i would be interested in the pictures as well if you can sort them thanks.
    Beads i have found are for boarded walls, i was going to plaster straight on to block work.
    http://www.expamet.co.uk/product/plasterers-accessories/metal-bead-plasterboard/feature-bead
    http://www.buildingmaterials.co.uk/building-materials/plasterboard-accessories/15-15-shadow-gap-plasterboard-trim-3000mm/
    http://www.barbourproductsearch.info/renderplas-makes-shadow-gaps-simpler-with-new-news016813.html

    bot de paille, the problem i see with that is there is no finish on the back of the gap, just the block.
  12.  
    I have only done this once, and the gap was around 5-8mm from the floor, so you would never see the back of the gap.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeApr 25th 2013
     
    Hi DAve, hi Paul,
    Just tried to whisper you the pics but the file is too big for the allowable 500kb. If you want to whisper your email then I'll send them that way.
    Mike
    • CommentAuthorcullym
    • CommentTimeApr 25th 2013
     
    @woodgnome - expamet have a metal bead for this. This is the page I'd bookmarked when SWMBO brought up the idea of not having skirtings :-)

    http://www.expamet.co.uk/product/plasterers-accessories/metal-bead-internal-use/architrave-feature-bead
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      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 25th 2013
     
    Posted By: bot de paillethe gap was around 5-8mm from the floor, so you would never see the back of the gap
    Using plaster as airtight layer?
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    lol, definitely not an energy efficient orientated project, as most them weren't

    But back in the days when customers were swimming in (equity) cash, people were only interested in 2000 pound Smeg fridges, granite worktops, and shadow gaps... and that they would retire property millionaires
    • CommentAuthorwoodgnome
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2013 edited
     
    Cullym, thanks for the link.

    Edit..just worked out what/who SWMBO is..!
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2013
     
    Hi Dave, hi Paul, Did you get the pics? Sorry they weren't close ups but I think the format will allow magnification, not sure on the resolution though.
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    Hi Owlman

    Got them thanks, haven't had a change to look at them in any detail yet but looks neat.

    I like the idea of a shadow gap as can't stand skirtings. But may go for the "recessed style skirting where it sits flush with the wall and between them is a shadow gap.

    Got another question though, what is the point of skirting and architraves and the rest of all that trim? Joiner on our reburb said that anywhere you had 2 different materials joining you needed to have trim to stop cracks showing.

    But even with trim you still have 2 materials joining, so is the point to that the crack forms on the corner where they join so it's less noticable?
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      CommentAuthorjoe90
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2013
     
    Architrave is fixed to the door frame, which will move as timber dries/shrinks/doors slam, but it slides over the plaster coat so yes you will have a line between timber/plaster but hardly noticable, less noticible than a crack between timber and plaster. Skirting as far as I know is just a fashionable kick panel. I really like tiled floors and an upstand of tiles acting as skirting.
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      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2013
     
    Posted By: joe90Architrave is fixed to the door frame, which will move as timber dries/shrinks/doors slam, but it slides over the plaster coat so yes you will have a line between timber/plaster but hardly noticable, less noticible than a crack between timber and plaster. Skirting as far as I know is just a fashionable kick panel. I really like tiled floors and an upstand of tiles acting as skirting.

    I think the word kick is the most important one. All these bits of trim serve dual functions - they tidy up edge details and they provide impact protection to the plaster surface. A dado rail is perhaps the exception, in that all it does is provide impact protection unless you have a panelled dado. I agree about a tiled skirting.
    • CommentAuthorRobinB
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2013
     
    "A dado rail is perhaps the exception" - not exactly - a proper dado rail would be at the height of your chair backs to protect your lovely wallpaper.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2013
     
    It looks like djh meant a dado rail is an exception to having the function of tidying up edge details.
    • CommentAuthorRobinB
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2013
     
    .... see your point, I didn't really add anything helpful - sorry!
    • CommentAuthorRex
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2013
     
    Another way to create a shadow gap is to dry line with Fermacell and then use a plunge saw on its side to trim away the lower edge, parallel with the floor. This could also be done on the top edge but only after the ceiling dry lining had been installed.

    Rex
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      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 29th 2013
     
    Posted By: RobinBa proper dado rail would be at the height of your chair backs
    Alternative trad name is chair rail!
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeApr 29th 2013
     
    Posted By: RexAnother way to create a shadow gap is to dry line with Fermacell and then use a plunge saw on its side to trim away the lower edge, parallel with the floor. This could also be done on the top edge but only after the ceiling dry lining had been installed.

    Why not install the Fermacell with a gap under it to start with? Or are you cutting away only part of the depth of the panel?
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeApr 29th 2013
     
    Posted By: djh..........Why not install the Fermacell with a gap under it to start with?

    Generally making a continuous trimming cut afterwards produces a better crisper more parallel line especially if the floor is for instance previously laid wood or ceramic where any bottom line undulation would be noticable, especially if illuminated. Admittedly you do need the right tools though, IMO.
    • CommentAuthorRex
    • CommentTimeMay 10th 2015
     
    I was searching for information on shadow gaps and found this thread, which I see that I contributed to way back.

    Reading it again, there is the mention of architrave around doors, being there to allow movement between the door frame and plaster. Personally, I think it is there because the average plasterer is unable to do a very neat job and the architrave can be used to hide c**p workmanship. But I have never done any plastering so do not know how hard it it to make a neat edge finish.

    However, I have a timber frame house, used Fermacell for the drylining the doors were door-sets, already finished and I do not have architrave around them. I butt joined the Fermacell to the door frame, made it all flush and left a small 'V' groove for any future cracking. To date, four years down the line, virtually no cracks around the doors.
  30.  
    Architrave is an aesthetic feature used to cover the join between the wall and the door frame. Its not really about hiding anything or allowing for movement per se. Its an aesthetic choice that was made many years ago that people would rather see wooden moulding than the join/crack/gap around the frame. When architrave was introduced plastering was done with lime which is softer, more likely to crack at junctions with wood and also crumble with time (doors being subject to vibration from opening and closing several thousand times)

    Believe me, most plasterers are more than capable of plastering any way you want around a door frame.

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