Can anyone provide advice on Diagram 17 section D of Part J (Flue outlet for solid fuel appliances) please?

My neighbours have had a DEFRA exempt wood stove fitted in January of this year and we have been experiencing problems with smoke in and around our property on a regular basis. We live in a semi detached bungalow and the flue vents through a shared chimney stack in the middle of the property (one stack 2 vents). I have been reading some of the threads on the forum and someone has stated that the flue should be 2300mm from any adjoining or adjacent buildings as per part J. Our properties are approximately 56 years old and my neighbours had a gas fire fitted in their property previous to installing the stove. I have approached my neighbours about the smoke problem and they have said they have done everything to comply and are not prepared to make any changes to their installation or their choice of fuel.

Any advice would be very much appreciated.

Mikeee

With regards the Part J question generally, I think you mean diagram 2.1? If so, the flue can be within 2300mm of an adjacent building, provided the outlet finishes at least 600mm higher than it. In your case though, you ought to pursue my first bit of advice before looking into the flue regulations.

Mikeee -Points to consider are that any structure including trees within 5 times the height of the fluestack exit and more than 50% of the fluestack height will create emissions downwash. Biomass emissions suffer inversion problems exacerbated by any low burn operation which reduces thermal buoyancy Scandinavian Countries are moving to a requirement for thermal storage to allow high burn and minimise pollution. The performance of the wood burning appliance depends heavily on the quality of fuel.
Have been there and got the “t” shirt. We sought a clean burn stove and followed the instructions, used clean wood and stored it in ventilated storage for recommended period, lined flue etc. but operation soon indicated our emissions were impacting on neighbours due to influence of adjacent trees.
We felt morally obliged to remove the wood burner and dispatch it to a happy home in the Lincolnshire Fens. Sadly a neighbour decided to subsequently install a wood burner and we now suffer the pollution.
This is a growing problem and I note it is becoming a cause for litigation in the States

Adding to what has been said above, house owners are often tempted to install too large a stove. A smaller stove is better as it can be run harder with maximim air and better combustion. This gets a cleaner burn.

Thanks for the replies.

This is the second attempt of using wood to heat their home. My neighbours self installed what they described as a “multi fuel boiler” last October to heat their central heating and to save on gas bills. They were burning pallets, painted architrave, painted skirting and any free off cuts of wood they could get their hands on. The smoke and fumes where absolutely horrendous and filled my home in a short space of time. I visited my neighbours to complain about the smoke and they said that they had done everything to comply and were not prepared to spend anymore money altering what they had done. I carried out some research on the internet and I soon found that their appliance should be DEFRA exempt to burn any other fuel than approved smokeless fuels as we live in a smoke control area. I also found that the installation was in fact illegal as the installation had not been carried out by a HETAS approved engineer and had no certificate of conformity. I had discussions with a number of governing bodies and was recommended to contact my local building control. I did this and an appointment was made to visit my property to investigate my complaint. The building control officer said it was more of an Environmental issue and told me to contact the Environmental Health Department. I did this and expressed my concerns about the smoke as I suffer from Asthma. I said that the smoke appeared toxic and I was concerned that it could contain Carbon Monoxide and could cause a fatality. The lady at the EHD said she would write to my neighbours to see if she could get a response! To cut a long story short it took the EHD 2 months to come to the same conclusion it took me in 1 Hour of research on the internet. My breathing capabilities took a severe down turn and I had to have emergency appointments with the doctor and had to have steroids prescribed to cope with the fumes. I also had to purchase oxygen from the internet to help me breath. Other symptoms I experienced were burning sensations to the throat after inhaling the smoke, headaches and nose bleeds. My daughter also complained regularly of headaches and had to have a visit to A &E for a CT scan. Smoke alarms where being triggered in our home on a regular basis and on one occasion a Carbon Monoxide monitor was also triggered! My neighbours decided to stop using the wood fired boiler when they were eventually asked to provide a certificate of conformity for their installation and were informed by the EHD that their boiler was not DEFRA exempt!

My neighbours had a new DEFRA exempt 4.5 kw stove fitted in December by an HETAS approved engineer. A pile of thick branches (with leaves on) were delivered to his property shortly afterwards along with a large number of wooden pallets and a large pile of off cuts of wood ie. 4x2 rough sawn timbers. The fire was lit in December and smoke and fumes were once again evident in our property. Another call to the EHD was made and another visit to my neighbours followed. The reply I got from the EHD was that the wood was clean and my neighbours were not contravening any legislation and closed the case. I have now suffered smoke in my property since last October and I am now under the respiratory consultant at my local hospital. I have been prescribed medication that is usually prescribed to people with COPD and emphysema to help me cope with the fumes.

I have carried out further research on the internet and it is clear that the stove has to be fuelled with the same fuel that it was tested with to comply with the DEFRA exemption. I have had a look on the DEFRA website and it states that the stove installed by my neighbours should be fuelled with Dry Seasoned logs only. This is also stated on the manufacturers website. I can not see how allowing it to burn rough wood and pallets falls within this requirement.

Mikeee

Mikee
My sympathies are with you.

Wow, what kind thoughts.

I have been monitoring my breathing capacity with a peak flow and logging the results on a peak flow chart since last October. I have had 3 letters from the consultant confirming my downturn in health and he has specifically outlined the smoke as the cause, visits to the doctors with nose bleeds and breathing difficulties have also been logged and forward to the EHD. They seem to have very little knowledge of wood stoves and I have had to do most of the research and forward it to them. I have requested smoke monitoring and they have said that their equipment is old and would be of little use. I have complained heavily to the chief executive and have gone through their complaints procedure and have now logged my complaint with the Local Government Ombudsmen. The smoke and fumes have also been affecting one of neighbours who also suffers with respiratory problems, she has also complained to the EHD.

<blockquote><cite>Posted By: Peter_in_Hungary</cite>Mikeee5
Do you know how the smoke is getting into your bungalow? Could it be coming down your chimney as a result of down drafts? or is it coming in through ventilation. If its down the chimney can you block off your flue?

The smoke was coming down my chimney as my gas fire is rarely used and through research it was recognised that a downdraft can occur when chimneys are back to back and one is not being used. I did block off the chimney for a while but my property went very stuffy due to the lack of ventilation. I spent £500.00 on modifications to my chimney including a spinner on the top. This works ok when it is windy but has little effect on still days especially when we have low pressure. The smoke comes through natural vents also especially in the conservatory, all windows and doors have to be closed also causing a stuffy atmosphere. Brian`s point seems to be fact also, the smoke very rarely goes upwards. It comes down the roof and the fumes linger at ground level. I can no longer go outside my home when the fire is lit.

Am I ok to carry on with this theme here folks? I am new to the forum and my initial question was about part J, is my neighbours smoke machine to close to my property!

Mikeee

And start proceedings to report your LA to the Local Government Ombusman. They tend to be about as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike, but at least it motivates someone at the LA to get off their backside.

Their claim that their equipment is "old" is a specious argument. Ask them why they have it in that case!

Follow Cwatters' advice and send off a solicitor's letter or, if that proves too expensive, get a (free) 30 minute consultation with a solicitor and from then on copy all correspondence to that solicitor but mark it "For information only" to stop him responding and charging you for it. The people you send those letters to won't know what you're doing and that the "cc Jones Solicitors" is a bluff.

Video the situation too, as well as keeping a detailed log. That log will be crucial in the event of any subsequent court action to stop the nuisance.

I'm having a REAL problem with all of this. Is your local authority composed of a complete bunch of idiots?

Jeez, we had the neighbouring landowner clear a stand of trees and burn them, causing thick grey woodsmoke to fill the upstairs flat before we owned the whole building. The owner called the EHD and a guy came out and told the landowner to extinguish the fires or he'd serve a notice on him and have him in court if he didn't. Perhaps different scenario, but it proves how effective some EHDs can be.

Rylands v Fletcher 1868. Look into Torts.
Was less than a year ago that we mentioned on here about just this scenario happening.

I thought it was someone that fancies themself, but can't get around to it
So that will be a lawyer then.

<blockquote><cite>Posted By: Joiner</cite>I'm having a REAL problem with all of this. Is your local authority composed of a complete bunch of idiots?

Absolute Joke!

If you were an EH Inspector / Building Control officer and I contacted you to report a smoke nuisance from a neighbours stove and reported that they were burning painted wood, informed you that I was asthmatic, the fumes appeared toxic and may contain Carbon Monoxide and feared they could cause a fatality. Would you..

A: Carry out a risk assessment to evaluate the risk, arrange a site visit without delay, request a certificate of conformity for the appliance and close it down when one is not produced.

Or

B: Send a letter to see if they may respond, drag your feet for 2 months, be quite happy for me to sleep in a fume mask and suffer a near fatal asthma attack!!

Mikeee

Don't be silly. That would require a decision.

OK. I'll put it to the sub-committee responsible for drawing up the agenda for the full committee after putting it out for public consultation to get a justification for the decision we've already made.

http://dilbert.com/fast/2012-06-23/